Cascade Crew

[BluFbdy]

Ok so i was driving home tonight in the rain (imagine that right?) i was heading back on the 16 going into Gorst and there is water build up on the road, i hit it doing the speed limit and it jerked me towards the wall!

Does this happen to anybody else? if i hit a puddle it will yank my steering whichever way it pleases and its pretty freakin annoying not to mention dangerous, ive got a little bit of slop in my steering box, only like half an inch to an inch before the wheels turn, id imagine thats got something to do with it, also i think the air dam/ height of the car is effecting it

ive already got the large sway bar set and the wonderbar on there, which definitely helped out a ton compared to what it used to do

and one last wtf problem: if i back up and crank the wheel the front tires hop.....like theyre falling off any idea what that is?

[Al Hasse]

HWY 16 in that area is terrible with ruts IIRC. It doesn't take much even when dry to catch a wheel just right in one and throw you over to the next lane. You should try South I-5 in the Lynnwood area at 60-70mph

[QwkTrip]

Stay away from big puddles. When you hit a puddle it puts a lot of drag on the tire. The car will pull to the side that has more resistance to rolling - and it can pull hard if the conditions are right. And to make things worse the tire contact with the road reduces or goes away altogether, so your control is reduced just when you need it most. You can improve handling by using tires that better disperse water and having good working shocks.

[BluFbdy]

yes ive checked my tires lol a million times i know that BIG puddles are a no no but at the same time i feel that i should be able to pass over water on the road without worrying about a wall to the face lol

ive notcied the dry jerks too, is there ANYTHING i can do to eliminate that? its kinda nuts, even the small puddles can suprise me, i didnt have an issue in AZ but well.....its the polar opposite of here lol

the wheel hop in front concerns me though, its always done it, my alignment stays straight (used to check it often in college just for kicks) and my wheels are all torqued down, stock, nothin fancy and i highly doubt GM would have a blunder like this from the factory....even though they have had a few doozies in the past....

[chevymad]

Any vehicle with a wide tire is going to pull in a puddle. It just happens. 3d gens also like to follow the road alot. On a rutted road it might look like you're drunk.

The wheel hop or slide is normal. I can't remember the term at the moment. Maybe John will come up with it. But it goes way back to the old wagon days. Has to do with the 2 different arc's the 2 tires on an axle have to make to go around the same turn.

[QwkTrip]

Wide tires and grabbing ruts go hand in hand. A brand new Corvette will follow ruts.

Your suspension has a slight tilt to help it go over bumps smoothly when moving forward. It makes bumps more jarring in reverse. But you shouldn't even notice at slow speeds in a parking lot.

I wonder if your lower control arm bushings are worn and sloppy and this is the cause of all your complaints.

[BluFbdy]

oh wait is that the ackerman angle thing? i remember going over it in college but i wasnt paying all that much attention....obviously

Is there anything i can do to correct it?

and yeah the rutted road thing has gotten me pulled over a few times, roads in phoenix are HORRIBLE for ruts
"have you been drinking this evening?"
"uhm no....im 20....and its my car"
"are you positive?"
"yeah....pretty sure."
"Well just to be safe im going to ask you to submit to a field sobriety test"
and on goes the fun

It sucks but i got a couple good stories out of it lol

[BluFbdy]

I replaced every single bushing with poly ones from energy suspension just over a year ago, that was my reasoning behind the new bushings was this woblle, and the body roll lol

[Dewey316]

Yes, ackerman will cause the front wheels to hop at high steering angles in reverse. BUT, worn out ball joints make it worse, if you hear a real loud single "POP" when you start moving in reverse at full lock, that is tell-tale ball joint.

On to ackerman....

To make a car turn properly when going forward, the inside wheel has to turn on a sharper arc than the outside wheel. To do this, the front steering geometry is set up so that the inside wheel steers more than than outside wheel. This is needed to avoid the inside wheel skipping through forward turns.

Now, take those two arcs, and the associated steering angles, in reverse the needed arcs are not the same, since you are basicly steering the car fron the back. In this case, you would need more steering angle on the outside wheel (use your hands like the tires to try to visualize this) to get a smooth turn.

Hope that helps.

[BluFbdy]

Hmm no pops but I remember replacing my ball joints when I did the bushings, I was hoping there would be a part of some kind to correct the issue, ideally id like to replace the whole k member and front end parts with a tubular setup, I couldn't get the ball joints to snap back into place so my instructor said the opposing force of the coil pulling it up would be sufficient is it possible that the joints are rolling around mre than usual? Like I said there's no pops or clicks but I'm sure that could be an isssue

[91RSVert]

On the following of the ruts, Ive found its a combonation of width of tire, but also still sidewall....

Ive got 2 sets of tires very similar in size (235/55 and 245/50), one are normal street tires, the other are high performace speed rated. The speed rated ones will jurk the wheel out of my hand in some areas, where I can drive just fine with the street tires.

You can swap to different tire combo, but then all performance goes out the window.

Another thing Ive learned reading the signs at tire stores. A NEW tire with lots of tread will actually drag more in a puddle, but still give traction. Where a bald tire will skim right across the top with less drag, but zero traction.

[Dewey316]

[BluFbdy]

Point lol

[blue89]

I have had great luck in adjusting my inclination angle. Since you cannot change how much ackermann you have you change how much ackermann you need. The necessary ackermann is set by the track width. Change the track width, and change how the car responds to the ackermann it has. All it involves is adjusting the strut mount on the spindle and then adjusting the camber back. I noticed a big difference when I had the 16's on my car.

[BluFbdy]

How am I supposed to do that without an alignment rack?

[Dewey316]

To be clear Travis, you are changing the scrub radius, right?

The thing is, it doesn't change the fact, that in reverse, the wheels need a slightly different ackerman than going foward, that is why our cars tend to bounch and pop in reverse at full lock. Big wide tires, perfomance alignments, and the long(ish) wheel base, all compund that issue.

Unless it is making an audible "pop" that would indicate a worn ball-joint, it isn't a problem, it just is.

[iansane]

[Dewey316]

ball joints are pretty easy to check, just jack the car up a bit, and use a pry-bar under the tire and pry up, if there is any clicking or movement in the ball joint. The popping at full lock usually is a good indicator though, if they pop when you turn sharp going forward too, the are probably pretty well shot.

[iansane]

Mine have started popping but it's not specifically when turning. When I back out of the garage they pop when I apply the brakes and then again at the top of my street then pop as I roll to a stop. Occasionally when I come to a stoplight. I was under the car yesterday and checked every bolt involved with the brakes themselves and nothing is lose. However, my lca bushings are cracked so I know I need new versions anyways. I had guessed either balljoints or maybe something funky with the swaybar bushings which are also cracked.

[Dewey316]

That is odd I wonder if it isn't something in the brake setup that is doing that, maybe the pads have some play back and forth or something?!?

Yeah, if you can see cracks, it is time for some work. Might as well do ball joints when you have the a-arms off.