Cascade Crew

[Xophertony]

i began working on ripping the top of the engine off of the 1986 2.8L firebird today. i have it down to the manifold and i have the valvecovers off, and the studs removed. most of the old gasket material is scraped off of the manifold base, and the valve cover bases as well. i still need to scrape out the valve covers themselves, PO used cilicone on them. i don't need to do that do i?

i also have yet to do the one thing that is my goal. tighten down the valve springs. also while i have the valve covers off i am going to replace all the studs with bolts. it is my hope that by doing this i will be able to remove them in the future without pulling the upper and lower plennums off. but i probably still will.

i am also going to see if i can remove my AC bracket. right now the powersteering bracket and it share a few bolts, so i will have to remove the AC bracket and cut off the shared portion and re-use it. if i don't screw it up it will give the engine bay a slightly cleaner look.

i have been told in the past that the 2.8MPFI computer only opens the EGR valve when the engine is cold, if this is true i will probably be removing the EGR as well. if this is false i will be leaving it alone. you might say "why remove the EGR, it hurts nothing?" why? i'll tell you why: it's ugly, and it is in my way. i also don't have a gasket for it yet and the biggest reason.. i hate all the carbon buildup it puts into my plenum.

EDIT* well, looks like whatever i read was wrong. it oporates just like the EGRs on every other car. when warm, at cruise. so it stays. some people on TGO report pinging when they remove it as well, due to the lean condition created when the computer THINKS the EGR is open. if i could delete the EGR code from the computer i might think about removing it... but since i can't i am not going to. pinging = detonation = DEATH for an engine. no thanks. EGR stays.... for now.

anyway, i have some pictures of the engine all torn appart, i will post them tomorow probably.

EDIT**
also does anyone know how to adjust hydrolic lifters? i found this writup on the 60* section on TGO. i am going to go by these instructions unless i hear otherwise
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/v6/223198-adjusting-rockers-pushrods-final.html?highlight=removing+EGR

[aaron_sK]

Silicone on valve cover "gaskets" suck. Get a set of rubber gaskets, everything else will either leak or be a mess.

[blue89]

Go 2.8 Go 2.8 Go!

The lifters is anyones guess man. Some say 1.75 turns, some say 1.25. Books even tell you different things. I think I did mine at 1.5. Just follow the instructions on the board, and make sure you know what 0 lash is, and you'll be fine. Also, make sure the lifters are pre-primed, if not, you need to prime them with oil.

I've done this many many many times..... I likely have to do it again cause I have 10k miles on my new motor and it sounds like a good idea. I hate hydrolic lifters by the way...

[blue89]

Oh ya, while your at it, go throw your nasty pintle 15lbhr fuel injectors away and get some 17lbhr disk's from a buick 3400 or 3800 at the junk yard. BIG IMPROVEMENT. The pintles have bad spray patterns, clog easy, and are not as good as the newer style. They also meter the fuel better!

Your car is an 86 so it has the vacuum operated EGR. It may be stuck open continuously or the valve that operates it is. Does your car have less power when its warm? thats what mine did, so I removed it by making a blanking plate on the manifold. Don't ever recall it pinging tho. Maybe whoever said that also had a bad o2 sensor. If you want to do it the cool way (the way I did it) go back to the junkyard and find a 2.8 S10 without the egr on that side of the manifold. Looks way clean, and noone will ever know!

If you get the bigger injectors and remove the EGR, it will run better.

Edit: Oh ya, if you remove the EGR but leave the computer controlled vacuum relay thingy, it won't throw a code.

[Quasi-Traction]

Heed the words of Hardcore......

CORK GASKETS.......just put a liberal amount of vasaline on there. I did that on the 305 in the 85 and it hasn't leaked a drop (yes I have been driving it, put about 200 miles on it since the tune-up )

I think the heater core is going out that car.....I always smell coolent when the fan's on and none of the hoses are split or leaking, haven't seen any appear inside the passenger compartment.

I thought your White bird was orginally a heater only car...why do you have an A/C Bracket?

Setting lash on hydraulics isn't hard. I don't know if its really necessary, but with the 305 I rotated the motor to the intake stroke with #1 at TDC. Pretty much after that all you have to do is tighten the nut down until it starts to seat on the pushrod and the valve stem. Some say go 3/4 turn after that, some say 1/2. I did more work than required and tightened it down until I couldn't get a .040 feeler gauge in there anymore. Mine's probably too tight and I'm causing more wear on the cam lobes than I realize.

[Xophertony]

i have an AC bracket because the "AC bracket" is intergrated into the powersteering bracket. my plan is to cut off the addititional bracketry to JUST have thwe shared portion, not the actual hanger for the AC compressor.

blu89, if i change injectors won't i have to re-tune the chip? i do not have the abbility to burn my own chips. and i am not going to spend $$$ so i can tinker with my 2.8s PROM.

my car does seem to have less power when warm. i always thought it was due to the intake air being heated up by the surounding hot metal parts. but latly it seems to have less power all around (i figured due to the valves being screwy).

also if i leave the relay the computer will think that the car has an EGR and will "open" and "close" it, and tinker with the mixture to compensate for the added richness provided by the recerculated exhaust gas. if i pull the relay i may get a code, but the car will know it has no EGR and therefor will not compensate for it's presence by adjusting my mixture. ...am i wrong on this?

how do i "prime" the lifters? with all the intake crap off the engine i certainly cant run it. i could crank it a bit with the starter i supose. will that be enough to "prime" them? or do i just pour oil on them?

[blue89]

The computer will run them just fine, as it will adjust to compensate for the larger injectors. Its smart like that. The new injectors will mainly work better. Check resistance just to make sure. I believe mine are 12ohm instead of the 16ohm like stock. I've been running mine for the last 3 years and loving them.

Priming your lifters: Get a smallish diameter container like a coke can size, put a lifter in it so its standing right side up, and fill it full of new motor oil until the lifter is submerged. Then use a pushrod and push the lifter down, then slowly lift it up. Each up/down cycle should take about 3-5 seconds. This will draw oil into the lifter, priming it. You should see a small bubble come out of the lifter if its empty. Do this 3-4 times, or until its hard to push down. Otherwise, it may not prime or take too long to prime.

If the lifters came in a cardboard box, they are more likely emptly. If they came in a plastic bag with oil stuff everywhere, they are probably primed from the manufacturer.

[blue89]

I'm pretty sure that the computer doesn't alter fuel mixture to compensate for the EGR. The EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) is there to insert inert gasses into the combustion chamber. This lowers emissions by a bit making it easier for the motor to pass Emission Tests. You'd have to ask a tuner guy for sure, but I haven't had a problem for the last 3 years.

If your car has less power when its warm, it could be because the vacuum relay is stuck open. You can check by unplugging the EGR valve and plugging the line with a golf tee or bolt and see how it runs. Mine was bad, so i got rid of it.

[Xophertony]

thanks for the EGR info.

there seems to be some confusion, i am not installing new lifters... i am just re-adjusting my valve lash to get rid of a rattle. the guy at napa told me to use the starter to turn the engine over until oil shoots out of the valvetrain

also the ac bracket thing worked. pics to come. camera is charging

[blue89]

Good deal. If they are old lifters they should be good. For some reason I thought you got new lifters. Lets see pics of the bracket, cause I removed my AC so I still have the old bracket. Looks funny but oh well.

[aaron_sK]

Did the non-AC cars get a different bracket setup, or did GM just leave an empty bracket under the hood?

[Xophertony]

as far as pre-serp 2.8s go they left the empty bracket under the hood. in a serp car it would have a "delete pully" or "idler pully" to maintain belt routing. that is why vbelt kicks ass.

[aaron_sK]

Heh... on mine some clever person just took a grinder and whacked off the portion for the A/C. I have two cuts chalked up to that little bit of razor-sharp metal. Next time I pull the headers I'll have to grind it the rest of the way off.

BTW, Chris, does that Vaseline thing work long-term at all? I've seen rubber gaskets last for years, but I've seen plenty of cork gaskets literally burnt on to the covers.

[Xophertony]

how do i tell which valves are exhaust and which are intake? my hynes and chiltons manuals can suck my ass. "adjust valve lash" does not count as "detailed instructions".


anyway... i guess i will just have to figure it out. also the manual says that with hydrolic lifters you should never have to adjust them.... so what is the deal?

[Dewey316]

exuast valves line up with exaust ports. Intake valves line up with intake ports.

[blue89]

Don't use the manual, follow the TGO write-up! and ya, do as dewey says.

[Xophertony]

pfffhh... you just look. it's not hard to see which ones are exhaust and which ones are intake.

EDIT* wow, ninja'd twice!

more questions though. i have gone through them and none have any up/down movement, yet ALL of the rocker arms will rattle back and fourth (as in toward the front and rear of the engine, NOT towards the valve and lifters). is this normal? seems like it would be noisy.

so i broke my distributor cap i pulled off the coil wire and the center stud came out with it so i have a new accell one on order at NAPA but it won't be here until monday morning. so since i am no longer on any sort of time frame i packed it in for today and am going to get some things done around the appartment that i have needed to do.

ASDFGA3 - that is what i did, i just ground off the excess, but unlike the rest of my bracketry this is aluminum, so it is soft and easy to file. i dook a file to the edges and smoothed them out. no razor sharp edges. looks prety clean too. i am thinking about sanding it up and hitting it with some flat black. but i don't think it will be worth the effort

i am also going to thale this opportunity to finally remove that damn AIR tube that is bolted to the back of my block. now that i can actualy get to it. i am still going to have to unplug some things... the way GM runs there wires can only be described one way: "cluster****". i am about ready to start cutting and splicing so i can re-route it how i wan't it. but i don't have the right color wire and i don't want little bits of bright orange in the middle of everything

so holycrap! i cranked the engine for about 30 seconds (two sets of 15 with a little break in the middle, so as not to damage the starter) and i put a two-liter bottle on the end of the fuel feed line. it is half full. that fuel pump pumps SO MUCH fuel, i can not imagine the engine using it all, even while WOT. i can't even imagine a 5.7 using that much fuel at WOT.

[blue89]

DOH! That sucks. Sorry bout the cap.

The rockers will wiggle sideways a little. You just pressed some of the oil out of the lifters. They will pump up fine when the engine runs. Do yourself a favor, and make sure all of the rocker nuts are down almost the same distance down the stud. Just as a sanity check.

I got rid of all my egr stuff when i did mine. Adjusting timing was a PITA with that tube back there by the distributor.

[aaron_sK]

Hehe.... good luck with those AIR tubes. I did manage to get one of mine out, but the other one is in there pretty good. The problem that I had is that GM had about six ground wires going to that bolt into the head, which made it a pain to remove even the bracket.

[Xophertony]

yeah, there are alot of grounds on one side, and a few on the other... i'll get it though.

so i took my TB apart and cleaned EVERYTHING i could get too. my IAC was gummed up bad. i can not oporate it with my hands, is that normal? i can compress the spring, but the valve itself is tight. can it only be opened electrically? it is almost a 60$ part, so i hope it's ok. if not it is easy to get too.

so i figured while i was in here i would change out my thermostat. so i removed the old one and took the new one (180* on the new one, old was probably 195*) and the old and put them in a pot of water, got out the ole candy thermomiter (clips to side of a pan, since it's purchase has been used more for testing thermostats then cooking) and let her rip. interesting find. the new one was full open at about 190*, the old one was barely half open at over 210*!!! and was barely cracking a smile at 195*. yesh... if the one in the GTA is even half that bad i think i found my cooling problem.. i picked up a 170* therm for the GTA as well.
Tony's tip of the day: always test a thermostat before installation, and especialy before you drill any flow holes in it. if it is bad and you drilled holes in it you can not exchange it for a new one.

i took a photo of my thermostats @ ~1958. here are some other assorted photos from todays work as well.



this next one shows my engine all torn appart, as well as giving you a look at the AC bracket in it's original form toward the driver side.


this next one shows you what i did too it


and lastly we have a nice overall shot with the new AC bracket.


i still feel it looks out of place, but it takes up less space now and i think i shaved almost 1/4th of a pound off the car. yay weight reduction mods!