Cascade Crew

[Xophertony]

my car gives off a "chevy salute" everytime i start it. and latley others have told me it happens when i take off from a light as well. i though "no big thing, i'll get to it". that was until i added up all the oil i have "toped it off" with in the last 2,800 miles since my last oil change. almost 2.25 quarts. that seems like way to much to drink between oil changes.

i was talking to my dad about it today. i mentioned that i wanted to put new valve seals in and he informed me that meant "getting the heads done" at a machine shop. and that it may be in the ballpark of $600.

i will admit i do not know verry much about engines. i know the fundamentals of internal combustion as well as the differences between how 4stroke 2stroke and diesel engines work inside. i know what the heads do and know what a cam does. i know the differences between overhead and underhead cams. however, that being said, when somones starts talking about cam duration #s, my vision starts to go blury. i know what it is, but not what the #s themselves actualy mean in relation to one another. i am digressing, but now you know where i stand expertise wise.

on to my questions.
1. is what my dad said about replacing my valve seals true? do i need to have them done?
2. while i have the head off would be the PERFECT time to replace my cam, since the head is ontop of the cam right?
3. is there some kind of improved cylinder head i should look into? like the aluminum corvette L98 heads? i figured why get the stock iron heads re-done when i can get the aluminum heads off of a junkyard L98 vette redone.
4. this would also be a good time to drop in stronger rods and valves to better stand up to N20 or forced induction right?

thanks for any and all opinions guys. although i did not plan on doing any more proformance upgrades for a while this oil drinking engine has kinda forced my hand.

[Schultzy89GTA]

[Twilightoptics]

1. Agree with Mike. I under the impression the only time you smoke when you accelerate is rings... guides/seals would be under decel/startup. (brandon?)

2. Changing the cam means taking the intake off, and everything infront of it (IE radiator/water pump/ timing cover/ etc)

3. To get any real improvement, have someone port the L98 if you need them off. Or you're looking at 800+ for heads.

4. To put rods in, you have to pull the engine OUT.

[Xophertony]

1. well, my ignorance on engine internals shows here. i thought seals and guides were the same thing. when he and i were talking i said "guide seals".

as for "under exeleration" it was a situation like this: if i sat idle at a light and then began exelerating i would have a "puff" right as i started off of the line, then it would go away. bobby sellman was the one to point this out. ...god i hope the rings are not going out... then i would prety much be looking at a re-build.

2. oh, so i can still do that later. i just did not want to pull the heads twice. to answer the question, NO i do not feel the need for a new cam at this time, and now that i know i can do that with the heads on i will keep my original plan of ding it in a year or two.

3. would junkyard heads realy cost that much? the main reason for this was so that i would not have the car down for days or weeks while the heads are out being "done". ....that and i could say i have a corvette engine. .

4. i ment the "pushrods" that go from the cam lobes to the rocker arms. or is that what you are talking about.

the rundown on any and all future build plans: nothing major. if i ran turbo it would be 10LBS or less. or if i do N20 it would be 150 shot or less. so the consensus so far is that the stock top end is plenty strong enough for that level of pushing.

mostly i am trying to get a feel for things that i "might as well do while you're in there". like for example: if you replaced a bent A-arm with a "boxed" or tube one (whatever your poison) you would not put your worn original factory bushings in it, you would get new bushings, or convert to rod end. or when you replace a worn clutch you also do the throwout bering, is there anything like that on heads?

also, new question, if i "port" the heads that means i am making the intake holes bigger right? so i will need new valves?(to fit the bigger holes) also will that give me more low end or high end power? chris and i were talking about this the other day, but we were talking about runners.

thanks for all the answers guys, one of these days i am just going to have to buy an old block and re-build it so i can learn exactly how all this stuff goes together. once i get a house i am so doing that (so this will be a few years....)

[iansane]

I'm under the assumption that porting the head is going to be messing with mostly the opposite side of the head than the valves themselves. But I have just about as much knowledge as you when it comes to this stuff.

For what you're going to be paying for even port work or actual l98 heads vortecs might be an option? I always hear those thrown out as an idea I don't know how well they perform.

Cam swaps are easy; even I can do them

[KH29ROCKS3]

Tony...... Remember when you bought the car, I told you that I did guide seals on the left bank when I resealed the intake....for the second time, I love doing things twice......what I get for not using GM parts. I did use GM factory positive seals on both the intake and exhaust valves. I ran out of time and was not able to get the right side done. After doing just the one side, it cut down my "salute" by half. I still have the valve cover gasket and guide seals in my tool box and I know I said I was going to send them and I keep forgetting to do that. It's not that difficult of a job. Need to have the fitting to air up the cylinder you are working on, need to have a valve spring compression tool, hammer and a fair amount of patients. Basicly, you pull the valve cover, remove the rockers and push rods....being careful to note where thay came from so they go back in the same location. Make sure you have the cyl aired up and use the spring compressor to compress the valve spring and remove the little keepers, pull the springs off, remove, if still there, old seals and install new ones. From the factory, the exhaust valves had nothing more than an O-ring as a means to deflect the oil from going past the guide......one of GM's awesome ideas. All this can be accomplished without pulling the intake, just need to remove the upper plenum. I still have your address, I will try to remember to box that stuff up and send it to you this weekend.......really sorry about that. I also read a thread concerning the ECM......when I replaced that, it was with the exact part number as the factory one I removed. I transfered the prom as new ones do not come with a new prom. Just FYI.........
Hope this helps.......
Bob

[Twilightoptics]

You don't want junkyards heads. You'll need to have them checked and probably rebuilt to be safe anyways so you might as well just do your own.

Vortec heads are a GREAT investment I think, except you'll need a $400 intake ontop of that. The heads themselves are like $250 a piece and work wonders.

Pushrods are not important until you start running high cam lift and high rpm.... say 5500+ or you have guideplates.

Which o your engine, you have neither.

[Xophertony]

do these vortec heads come ready to go in? like includeing valves and seals and such? and what kind of intake do i need to go with it? are we talking mini/stealth/super ram?

bob, thanks. that does help. i would like to not have to buy them. free is good.

[iansane]

You can get them bare or assembled for pretty cheap I guess.

I just did some looking around on gmpartsdirect and found

12558060 assembled
12529093 bare

They've got the stealth for the vortec heads now but I think SDPC or whatever the heck it is has a standard vortec TPI base manifold as well.

[Xophertony]

cool. in case anyone else has no ide what a vortec head is, here is an awsome article i just read: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/howto/97458/ now i know some cool stuff.

so would you guys use the vortec head as is, or would you have machine work done to make the valves bigger like in the article. i am not looking to make a 9 second car here... i just want to be able to beat imports and mustangs

this sounds like a cool thing to do. i am all exited now. is anyone else running vortec heads?

[alloy]

Edelbrock last year came out with a TPI base manifold with the EGR valve provision built into it. If I swap head to the vortec's that's the way I'll end up going. No more running a remote EGR with the other TPI base manifold. I think the price was around $450. Summit had them.

Also, the current issue of Camaro Performers has about a 3 page article with pics on how to replace valve stem seals in a 3rd gen. I didn't buy the mag, was a little too basic for me. But if you've not done this before, it's worth the $4 to buy the mag. You can also use a length of nylon rope, an old plug wire, to hold the valves up. You are not just limited to using air like in the tech article.

Ok, fourth manifold down on the summit page. I can't seem to make it link directly to the 3817 for some reason.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=edelbrock+tpi+manifold&x=0&y=0&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp

[Xophertony]

interesting. would that work with the stock runners and upper intake? i see that they also sell one with runners. but they do not sell one with an upper section as well. i assume it will use stock runners and plenum.

looks like if i decide to use vortec heads i better decide if i want to stick with TPI or not.

[Twilightoptics]

[Xophertony]

well. i have been looking at Miniram and stealth ram. holeys website is dificult to navigate, in addition they do not say much about the stealthram. i also can not find a part number for just the intake, they are all "complete kits" including a comander 950 and a bunch of other stuff, they ring in around 3K.

as far as TPIS goes... nothing on there site indicates if it will bolt to a vortec head.

this is hard. i am going to bed.

[rjmcgee]

Put a carb on it.

[Twilightoptics]

Miniram is in excess of $1200 for the intake alone.

http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=vshop&vid=6&pcid=177

You get the Base/Plenum in one part number.
You get the Fuel Rails in another (GET THE ADJUSTABLE REGULATOR KIT!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Talking $340 and $225 for that.

Then you rig up your fuel lines, adjust a few things, and it bolts right where the TPI did.

You replace the HSR you'll want a bigger cam, and then probably the heads (If you're still going vortec)

Never seen the Vortec setup before not sure what it will do. HSR likes to be reved high with a big cam.

[Xophertony]

thanks for finding that. i was looking on holeys website.
564.90 for the HSR+rails+fuelregulator.
365.74 for each vortec head
XXX.00 for a cam
XXX.00 for rocker arms (not in the picture of the heads, vortecs require self adjusting rocker arms)
dang. well it is more expensive then havingmy heads done.... but it is alot better bang for my buck. this is looking like a project that is going to have to wait until summer. i guess i'll just have to keep burning oil till then.

[Schultzy89GTA]

[Twilightoptics]

[Xophertony]

stock 88 L98 heads have self adjusting rockers? sweet. we also allready have centerbolt valve covers, so i can retain those as well. thats nifty. now all i need to do is pick a cam. it's too bad our engines are not vtec..

so i know that an agressive cam will have higher valve lift then stock, and less valve overlap then stock. do i have that stuff right?