Cascade Crew

[91camaro_rs]

ok so in the past 3 months im on my 3rd starter, first one i had lasted 11 months, 2nd one lasted like 3 weeks and now the 3rd one is starting to have issues, i went to remote start my car and the starter just clicked, so i turned the key and same thing, 2nd time turning the key it started, so im thinkin this starter is going bad now too, what would make my starters blow so fast? i dont have shims on it now, never did and it always seemed fine, do i need them? or should i just dump this huge weight of a starter and get the corvette mini hi torque one

[Twilightoptics]

Lt1 starter.


Where are you getting them? Not uncommon to.go through a bunch of remans.

Shims are for bendix drive gear to flywheel mesh. You'll know if you need Shims.

[iansane]

Do a voltage drop test on main power cable.

[91camaro_rs]

[QwkTrip]

The shims are used to set the pinion gear position so that there is proper alignment (backlash) with the engine ring gear. If you need shims then the backlash is too tight and there will be a howling-squealing noise. That's what he means by "you'll know"

Clicking is low voltage, or damaged ring gear that keeps the starter from going into gear mesh with engine.

[Twilightoptics]

When it does finally crank the engine over, does it spin at normal speed? If not you have a power source or voltage drop issue.

Any lt1 starter from a fbody will bolt right it.



Jon is right about just clicking. Is it a Hugh pitch click or more of a thunk click? High pitches is power issue. Thunk is the bendix coming out but not turning the flywheel, or spinning at all for that matter.

[QwkTrip]

What kind of starter is on those cars? Does the solenoid throw out the pinion using a shift lever, or is it the ancient inertia style with helix splines that relies on the mass of the pinion assembly to throw out when the starter spins?

[91camaro_rs]

the starter im using now is the massive one

and the clicking is just the gear being pushed out and not spinning

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BTE0/030365X.oap?year=1991&make=Chevrolet&model=Camaro&vi=1035795&ck=Search_starter_01920_1035795_2538&keyword=starter&pt=01920&ppt=C0330

Part # 03-0365X

and once started it spins at normal speed and it will always start you just have to do it a few times

[91camaro_rs]

the starter im using now is the massive one

and the clicking is just the gear being pushed out and not spinning

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BTE0/030365X.oap?year=1991&make=Chevrolet&model=Camaro&vi=1035795&ck=Search_starter_01920_1035795_2538&keyword=starter&pt=01920&ppt=C0330

Part # 03-0365X

and once started it spins at normal speed and it will always start you just have to do it a few times

and it only does it maybe 1/4 of the time, other times it starts right up

[chevymad]

Solenoid pulls the bendix into the gear.

I've run into 2 issues with reman starters, and even a brand new starter. I finally gave up after starter #5. I'll buy a mini starter next time.

The first reman just burned out within a year. Next 3 starters all had an issue with the bendix. Most of the time the starters just would not engage the flywheel. After a close examination I discovered that the reman company hadnt beveled the teeth on the bendix gear. So with square cut teeth everything had to line up just perfect or no action. I removed the bendix from the very first starter put it in the last of these newer ones and it lasted a month before the motor gave out. These last 3 starters were of 2 different brands.

The last starter I bought was a BRAND NEW never remanuctured starter. It was spendy. Cost me $120 and I get my parts for cost+10. This starter does what yours does.. ever since day 1. Click click start.. I even changed cables and then added a ford solenoid. Still does it. It's been in there 4 or 5 years now and it still pisses me off.

I'd have changed this one too, except I was tired of replacing them and my boss didnt believe any more that it was the starters.

So there you have it 3 different brands of starters, one brand new, and they're all garbage. Once you eliminate a voltage drop problem, do as Paul suggested and buy a good starter. Either aftermarket mini or an lt1.

[QwkTrip]

For those that are interested...

There are different styles of starter engagement and some are more prone to "click-no-crank" (also called blind start) than others. When the starter engages the ring gear it will find a gap and slide into gear mesh most the time. Occasionally the gear teeth will meet up in tooth abutment and there has to be a mechanism to clear the tooth abutment or the starter won't engage. There are three methods used in modern starters.

1. You probably have what is called, "Positive Engagement". Positive engagement does not turn on the starter until the pinion gear is in mesh with the ring gear. The goal is to not chew up the gears by turning on the starter too early. The drive assembly attempts to clear tooth abutment by mechanically twisting the pinion as the solenoid plunges forward. Problem is there is only so much twisting that can occur and the solenoid force is dependent upon voltage. If voltage is too low then the solenoid pull-in force won't be enough to make the action work and the starter will have click-no-crank frequently when the gear teeth are in abutment. But even the best designers can't make it work all the time. A good working starter will still have up to 5% click-no-crank rate over the life of the starter. It is on the high end when the starter is new until the gears polish up, and then it gets high again when the starter wears out. Any little burr or slightest damage to either starter pinion gear or engine ring gear will cause more click-no-crank. It is extremely sensitive to the condition of the gears. Basically, if you want ultra-reliable starter engagement then get rid of your old starter and get a newer design with a different engagement method.

2. "Positive Shift" throws out the pinion gear and the starter turns on just before contact with the ring gear. This is becoming more common with gear reduction starters. It relies on a delicate balance of acceleration and solenoid pull-in force for the starter to slip into the ring gear. If the starter doesn't slip in then the motor goes full power and mills down the gears. Basically one mistake and you're hosed, but when everything works right this is the only method that gives 0% click-no-crank. Working right and working wrong comes down to the expertise of the designers and manufacturing quality and consistency. Buy Denso or Bosch, and never buy reman.

3. "Soft Start" is also used with gear reduction starters. As the pinion throws forward the motor spins at low power until the gears mesh and then the motor goes full power. The torque of the soft start mode is dependent on voltage to solenoid and if the voltage is too low then the torque won't be enough to spin the pinion against the face of the ring gear and you'll get click-no-crank. Even under normal conditions the soft start motor will still have 0.5% or more click-no-crank rate. What some designers do is have a two-stage solenoid where the soft start has a moment to work and then the starter turns on (just like positive shift) and the pinion is slammed home into the ring gear. You only want a soft start design from companies that really know what they are doing. Again, Denso and Bosch are safe bet and never buy reman.

[redlava]

I bought a 100 dollar lt1 mini starter it died, like 2 weeks later. I noticed thought that there are 2 tiers of starters at napa/schucks. One type is 100$ and the other is at 180-200$. After being stranded in a parking lot, I decided to pony up the extra money for the more expensive starter and haven't had a problem. If I needed a quality replacement starter on a budget I would look in the junkyard for one that was replaced more recently. At least that way you wouldn’t be getting more junk from the auto parts store.

[91camaro_rs]

all the ones at oreillys are remans, i looked on summit and there is a new one for 170

[QwkTrip]

GM probably had Delco Remy. Stay away from that junk or any copy of it.

I spent over $300 on a new Denso R-series starter for my Jeep. Best gear reduction starter in the world. The Denso R-series is the gold standard against which everybody else is measured. In general, people don't put enough importance on a quality starter until they are stranded somewhere.

[RSFreak]

I was having the same problem with my Taurus. I went through at least 7 starters in the last year and a half. I reject the "junk reman" theory because the law of averages would indicate that I should have gotten at least one good starter.

[Twilightoptics]

My First LT1 starter died it's first drive out.

My second one had a huge amp draw.


I had a VERY WELL KNOWN local shop sell me a new one. The one I sold to AL. Worked freakin awesome.

[jchaussee]

Can't the original 100 or so lb starters be rebuilt?

[Twilightoptics]

Yeah, but why? The cost of having it rebuilt isn't worth huffing that heavy chunk of crap up there again.

[jchaussee]

I don't know what costs are. Butvi have original in my car still and it 26 years old. So they must got something right. And like everybody else. Most originals last a long time and the issues start when replacing with a reman.

[Twilightoptics]

Not quite.

You'll find out soon enough with headers on there, how quickly the large starter becomes an issue.