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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Logic Reply with quote

The goo in this bottle came from the same country as the goo in this clutch, so this should all work out great!

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fiveoformula
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Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: OR

1988 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You lost me already.... lol
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Twilightoptics
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
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Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wtf mate?
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iansane
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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Location: Bothell

1991 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fan clutches are viscous? Cool, never thought to wonder what was inside of them. Are you trying to "adjust" your clutch tension or just repair instead of replace it?

Or am I out in left field and that's not a fan clutch? Laughing

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fiveoformula
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1988 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a FURD repair to me... Wink
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Alphius
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound

1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiveoformula wrote:
Sounds like a FURD repair to me... Wink


Bottle has Japanese on it so I'm not convinced.

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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha... I figured this would throw you guys for a loop, so here's the lowdown:

I have always had only a very rudimentary understand of how a clutch fan works. I knew it was a viscous fluid coupling because I had seen them leak, and I knew it had some sort of vane adjustment or something (because of the bi-metal strip on the front) but I didn't think to much beyond that.

The Toyota had been running warm in traffic on only the very hottest days. Never at speed and never during my morning commute or on cold days. Logically the fan clutch was the first suspect, and it did seem very loose so $10 off craigslist problems solved, right?

Well no, the "new" clutch worked okay for a bit, but started doing the same thing, so I started reading.

Apparently this is a common problem with Toyota mechanical fans. The interweb consensus is that Toyota used a thin fluid on most vehicles and habitually underfilled the clutches from the factory.

After more research I found that most of these clutches don't use a petroleum-based product, but a non-Newtonian silicone fluid that gets stiffer as more force is applied. The bi-metal strip controls a sliding door that allows more or less fluid into the clutch from the reservoir. The fluid does break down over time, and 'Yota's underfilling makes that even worse. You can buy fluid direct from the Toyota dealer for about fifteen bucks per 16mL bottle (the clutch takes 35-40mL!), but that seemed like a real dumb idea so I pressed on and discovered that the same fluid is used in RC car differentials.

I had the spare clutch that came off the truck, so I figured I had nothing to loose (except time, money and valuable garage time that should be spent on the Camaro) so I was off to the hobby shop in Lakewood for a $10 50mL bottle of goo (the stuff is actually imported from Japan).

Toyota actually used the standard viscosity index for this silly-cone goo, and I found a '3K' stamped on the casting of mine, and a '5K' stamped on the craigslist unit. 3K, 6K and 10K are the common higher viscosities, but you can mix and match to make what you want. The stuff goes up into the 500K range if you want it really thick. The goo I bought was 10K because they didn't have any 6K on the shelf.

I split the clutch casing and left it face-down in a drain pan in the sun while I drove to the hobby shop in Lakewood. People say it takes forever to drain but they're idiots or they're doing it cold because I got it dry in about an hour on a 90* day. I filled it up to the highest point and reinstalled it, but after the truck warmed up it was worse then ever. I pulled it back off and split it open again and found the guts nearly dry. The stuff doesn't flow for s*** and I had left a huge air bubble inside the clutch. Laughing After a second topoff it went much better.

I have to say so far I am very impressed, and it has possibly worked too well. I drove all day yesterday with the aircon on high and it barely touched the halfway mark on the gauge. I was stuck in heavy traffic today and it was rock steady at about 2/5 of the gauge.

The true test will be the next economy run. If it kills my milage I will drop it back down to 6K fluid.

So there you go. If you're too cheap to do the smart thing and buy an electric fan you can just cheat and tune your clutch fan for cheap!
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Alphius
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1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TLDR;

Buy a junkyard Taurus electric fan and be done with it. The lesson here kids is that if you start taking things apart and thinking about them too much you will go insane like Aaron and spend way too much time and money on dumb projects.

Very Happy

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iansane
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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1991 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

This is awesome. Born a tinkerer. Good job dude.

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RSFreak
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Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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Location: Renton

1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alphius wrote:
TLDR;

Buy a junkyard Taurus electric fan and be done with it. The lesson here kids is that if you start taking things apart and thinking about them too much you will go insane like Aaron and spend way too much time and money on dumb projects.

Very Happy


I was gonna say why are you messing with old school tech instead of going electric, but Gabe said it better. Razz

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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha! I actually did all of this while a perfectly good Taurus fan was sitting on the floor next to my bench. LMAO

You guys know I'm the biggest proponent of electric fans, but I have $20 into this whole thing, and an electric fan at Pick-N-Pull is up to $40 now. Plus then I would have had to build mounts, buy a temp sender ($15) and build a wiring harness. Not worth it on an old work truck.

Plus I learned something I didn't know! Very Happy
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RSFreak
The other "John"


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaron_sK wrote:


Plus I learned something I didn't know! Very Happy


Learning stuff is over rated. Rolling Eyes
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rjmcgee
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

logic would dictate losing that bad ass 80's technology and install the electric fan. increased miliage would pay back the install.

I'm going to do electric fans on both my diesels, the IDI first to free up precious horsepower! Even a 5hp increase is like 20% on that turd
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjmcgee wrote:
logic would dictate losing that bad ass 80's technology and install the electric fan. increased miliage would pay back the install.


Logic yes, but reality no!!!

313 miles on this tank. 29.6mpg. That's the second best tank I've ever run through this truck.

I wasn't milking it either. Raced a guy yesterday and drove in my typical style.

I'm pretty pleased. I'll wait until the weather cools off to see if it takes forever to heat up or something.
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IROCDave
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Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would be interesting to see the fuel economy delta of the Taurus electric fan verse old school clutch fan....

Not sure if GM still does this with the HD trucks, but my 03 HD with a Duramax has a clutch fan. It is really loud, only time I can tell it comes on is when towing over steep grades with AC on.
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much any truck runs a clutch fan. More durable and reliable than an electric fan, and it only has one failure point.

I too would be interested in seeing an electric vs. clutch delta on HP and economy losses. The problem is that the electric fan is reliant on the electrical system being well designed, whereas the clutch fan is fairly static.

A properly installed electric fan will drag less on an engine than something hacked together with crimp-ons and speaker wire.


And now a fun side note for you all: The new 6.7 'Stroke trucks run an ECM-controlled fan clutch.


It fails a lot.


Big surprise.


Laughing
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trucks got rid of the clutch fan a few years ago.

Several have had ecm controlled e-fans.. and some have even had hydraulically operated fans running off the ps pump.
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Twilightoptics
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
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Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ecm controlled air actuated fan ftw.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaron_sK wrote:
I too would be interested in seeing an electric vs. clutch delta on HP and economy losses.


I have an old issue of a magazine that did that. Swapped fans on the same truck and the clutch fan won the mileage contest. I think it was either Diesel Power magazine or Peterson's 4-Wheel and Off-Road.

I'd dig it out but I have hundreds of magazines in crates and I'm not going to find it any time soon. Speaking of which, what do people do with old car magazines? The hoarder in me won't let me throw them away, even though I should.
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was a diesel truck they did it on then any economy results are skewed due to the diesel's efficiency with a load.


I'm more interested in the fact that you still get freakin' magazines! What is this, 1997? You're gonna read some Hot Rod and then check your pager? Razz Laughing
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