Cascade Crew

[Xophertony]

Crew,
I installed a Powermaster mini-starter a few years ago. My only complaint is that the thing will get too hot after 30+ minutes of driving from the heat off of my Hooker headers (I think they are hookers... I bought them from Schultzy) To the point where I will have to wait 5 or 10 minutes to let it cool off before restarting. Not a big deal when you are getting groceries, much bigger deal when it dies on the street for one reason or another. Today I had to push it to the side of the road after making an emergency stop on the freeway. NOT FUN.

I have heard of people solving this with a "starter blanket" or with heat shielding. Any one have any experience one way or the other? Also, the thing is guaranteed for life... could this qualify as a starter defect?

I looked on Summitracing.com and found no heat blankets, anyone know where to get one that fits right?

Thanks Team!

[Twilightoptics]

SLP headers.

Really shouldn't be an issue with that small of a starter. What's your thermostat? Might consider some issues causing extra heat in the exhaust.

http://www.amazon.com/Unversal-Starter-Barrier-prevents-premature/dp/B0045T5E4O

[Xophertony]

widened my search a bit and found this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-14150
I'm going to pick it up. Even If I do return the starter this is still a good idea.

[aaron_sK]

How is the tune? Especially the timing.

I'm with Paul, a mini starter should not be heat soaking that easily. I had issues with my factory starter doing exactly as you describe, but an LT1-starter fixed it right up.

Also try taking a look at the wiring. A poor battery wire or low voltage at the trigger wire can cause issues like this.

[Xophertony]

Paul - Thermostat is the elusive 170* Thermo I believe, though I see coolant temps around 220* in the summer under normal conditions. You think I should try and warranty out the starter?

Arron - I will take a look at my wiring as well, that is a good idea. I have not put a timing light on the car in probably 5K miles, I'll double check it. The tune is.. well.. off. The car runs rich, which of course can cause higher exhaust temps. Paul (twilightoptics) made a chip for me after I put my SLP headers on, but before dyno. He did the best he could sight unseen, and we always meant to go back and fix it but never did.

[aaron_sK]

If your thermostat is a 170 and you see temps floating at 220 you do not have a starter issue.

Something is off in the tune (most likely too much fuel and.or late spark), or something is wrong with the cooling system.

This is assuming you are using a proper temp gauge, and not the goofball GM unit in the dash.

[Xophertony]

[MrMike98]

my stsrter issue was solved by installing a remote solinoid aka(ford).
no cutting of factory wires required...run 00 wire to starter and jumper out the starter solinoid and ur done...

AND no factory wires runnimg under headers etc to get burned and brittle

[Alphius]

A remote solenoid is a band-aid for low voltage at the starter solenoid usually caused by high resistance in the solenoid wire. It gets hot, voltage is too low to crank. Sometimes it can be a successful band-aid; I ran one for years! Cured my hot-start problem at the time but was ultimately unnecessary.

I believe the root cause of Tony's problem is excessive heat. Tony, learn to burn chips! You can also confirm coolant temperature readings by using an infrared thermometer on the upper rad hose or thermostat housing.

If your starter ends up being bad and you can't warranty it I have a really nice LT4 starter that I never had any problems with that I will also never use again that I could be persuaded to send to you in exchange for some presidential portraits...

[Xophertony]

mentally slow morning, i'm sitting here thinking "presidential portraits.. OH! Cash, I get it."

I have an inferred temperature gauge, that's a good idea.
The chip burning I have always hesitated on because I found it cost prohibitive. I also plan on going LS at some point, and then all the money I invested on chip crap is for not. i'll look into it again and see if it makes sense.

[Xophertony]

Ok, I just took a look on moates.net, Looks like I need to find out what Chip socket and chip type I already have before proceeding, I should be able to do that tomorrow night. This stuff has come down in price a lot. Looks like I can get an all-in-one thing to emulate, datalog, and program a chip allready on the ECM.

This is what I am talking about:
http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-package-usb-version-p-54.html?cPath=64

But before I go nuts with ordering all that, I need to check my electrical connections at the starter, My timing, and verify what my in dash temp gauge is saying.

[aaron_sK]

If you are looking to do a tune on the cheap I would buy the GP1 kit from Moates:

http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm-adapter-with-2-chips-p-41.html?cPath=64

...and borrow a Burn1 programmer and ALDL cable from someone on the crew. That is assuming there are still some of them out there that haven't gone LS or Megasquirt.

[Xophertony]

I think I already have that. My car is chipped now with an adapter like that, I just am not sure which one. I need to pull my ECM down and verify.

[DBL_TKE]

Running lean causes hotter exhaust temps, to a certain extent. So does running retarded timing.

[fiveoformula]

I think more advanced timing makes more heat skyler.

[chevymad]

Retarded timing makes exhaust heat. Ask Mike about what plug wires do when you forget to plug in the timing connector

[aaron_sK]

Try it if you don't believe us. Retarded timing causes excess heat overall because the engine is running very inefficiently, and causes exhaust heat specifically because the combustion event is moved into the exhaust port and header tube vs. happening in the cylinder.

I remember Paul talking about how the old rich = cool hot = lean thing we all have heard over the years was an old wives tale and rich actually ran hotter. I will tell you that the Banana runs rich as f**k because of no O2, and those headers get real hot real fast.

[fiveoformula]

Makes sense I suppose. I guess temps just go up in the combustion chamber when you have to much timing?? thus causing the fuel to ignite from the heat, not spark?

[aaron_sK]

This didn't take long to get way off topic.


With too much advance the flame front from the plug will hit the piston face while it is still traveling upwards, trying to force the engine to run backwards.

Preignition from heat alone would be caused by carbon buildup, a poorly milled surface with casting flash, a protruding gasket lip, or something like that. Because it is separated from the heatsink of the head or block it gets hot enough to auto-ignite the mix.

[Schultzy89GTA]

... it heats them up until they melt and drip! They also make cool crop circles on my friend's lawn

-Schultzy