View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Xophertony Rodeo Queen
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 5304 Location: Portland, Oregon.
1988 Pontiac GTA
|
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: Starter heat soaking |
|
|
Crew,
I installed a Powermaster mini-starter a few years ago. My only complaint is that the thing will get too hot after 30+ minutes of driving from the heat off of my Hooker headers (I think they are hookers... I bought them from Schultzy) To the point where I will have to wait 5 or 10 minutes to let it cool off before restarting. Not a big deal when you are getting groceries, much bigger deal when it dies on the street for one reason or another. Today I had to push it to the side of the road after making an emergency stop on the freeway. NOT FUN.
I have heard of people solving this with a "starter blanket" or with heat shielding. Any one have any experience one way or the other? Also, the thing is guaranteed for life... could this qualify as a starter defect?
I looked on Summitracing.com and found no heat blankets, anyone know where to get one that fits right?
Thanks Team! _________________ 86' firebird (Junked in 2015). 88' GTA (sold in 2020).
aaron_sK wrote: | Hell, Tony drove his GTA to Cows a few years back with the pickup coil that came out in pieces. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xophertony Rodeo Queen
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 5304 Location: Portland, Oregon.
1988 Pontiac GTA
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
|
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How is the tune? Especially the timing.
I'm with Paul, a mini starter should not be heat soaking that easily. I had issues with my factory starter doing exactly as you describe, but an LT1-starter fixed it right up.
Also try taking a look at the wiring. A poor battery wire or low voltage at the trigger wire can cause issues like this. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xophertony Rodeo Queen
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 5304 Location: Portland, Oregon.
1988 Pontiac GTA
|
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Paul - Thermostat is the elusive 170* Thermo I believe, though I see coolant temps around 220* in the summer under normal conditions. You think I should try and warranty out the starter?
Arron - I will take a look at my wiring as well, that is a good idea. I have not put a timing light on the car in probably 5K miles, I'll double check it. The tune is.. well.. off. The car runs rich, which of course can cause higher exhaust temps. Paul (twilightoptics) made a chip for me after I put my SLP headers on, but before dyno. He did the best he could sight unseen, and we always meant to go back and fix it but never did. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
|
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If your thermostat is a 170 and you see temps floating at 220 you do not have a starter issue.
Something is off in the tune (most likely too much fuel and.or late spark), or something is wrong with the cooling system.
This is assuming you are using a proper temp gauge, and not the goofball GM unit in the dash. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xophertony Rodeo Queen
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 5304 Location: Portland, Oregon.
1988 Pontiac GTA
|
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
aaron_sK wrote: | This is assuming you are using a proper temp gauge, and not the goofball GM unit in the dash. |
it's the GTA digital dash too. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MrMike98 Member
Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 231 Location: Bremerton
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
my stsrter issue was solved by installing a remote solinoid aka(ford).
no cutting of factory wires required...run 00 wire to starter and jumper out the starter solinoid and ur done...
AND no factory wires runnimg under headers etc to get burned and brittle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Alphius Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 2429 Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
A remote solenoid is a band-aid for low voltage at the starter solenoid usually caused by high resistance in the solenoid wire. It gets hot, voltage is too low to crank. Sometimes it can be a successful band-aid; I ran one for years! Cured my hot-start problem at the time but was ultimately unnecessary.
I believe the root cause of Tony's problem is excessive heat. Tony, learn to burn chips! You can also confirm coolant temperature readings by using an infrared thermometer on the upper rad hose or thermostat housing.
If your starter ends up being bad and you can't warranty it I have a really nice LT4 starter that I never had any problems with that I will also never use again that I could be persuaded to send to you in exchange for some presidential portraits... _________________ 84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xophertony Rodeo Queen
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 5304 Location: Portland, Oregon.
1988 Pontiac GTA
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
mentally slow morning, i'm sitting here thinking "presidential portraits.. OH! Cash, I get it."
I have an inferred temperature gauge, that's a good idea.
The chip burning I have always hesitated on because I found it cost prohibitive. I also plan on going LS at some point, and then all the money I invested on chip crap is for not. i'll look into it again and see if it makes sense. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xophertony Rodeo Queen
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 5304 Location: Portland, Oregon.
1988 Pontiac GTA
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, I just took a look on moates.net, Looks like I need to find out what Chip socket and chip type I already have before proceeding, I should be able to do that tomorrow night. This stuff has come down in price a lot. Looks like I can get an all-in-one thing to emulate, datalog, and program a chip allready on the ECM.
This is what I am talking about:
http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-package-usb-version-p-54.html?cPath=64
But before I go nuts with ordering all that, I need to check my electrical connections at the starter, My timing, and verify what my in dash temp gauge is saying. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xophertony Rodeo Queen
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 5304 Location: Portland, Oregon.
1988 Pontiac GTA
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think I already have that. My car is chipped now with an adapter like that, I just am not sure which one. I need to pull my ECM down and verify. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DBL_TKE Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1505 Location: Aloha, OR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Running lean causes hotter exhaust temps, to a certain extent. So does running retarded timing. _________________ Richmond 3.73 posi| 36/24 sway bars | SLP LM2 | Koni's | Ground Control 800/200 | Y2K wheels | Dyno Don headers & Y-pipe | airfoil | BBK underdrive pulleys | Raised strut mounts | Extended ball joints | LCARB'S
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
fiveoformula Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 1799 Location: OR
1988 Pontiac Formula
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think more advanced timing makes more heat skyler. _________________
'88 FORMULA |
|
Back to top |
|
|
chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Retarded timing makes exhaust heat. Ask Mike about what plug wires do when you forget to plug in the timing connector |
|
Back to top |
|
|
aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Try it if you don't believe us. Retarded timing causes excess heat overall because the engine is running very inefficiently, and causes exhaust heat specifically because the combustion event is moved into the exhaust port and header tube vs. happening in the cylinder.
I remember Paul talking about how the old rich = cool hot = lean thing we all have heard over the years was an old wives tale and rich actually ran hotter. I will tell you that the Banana runs rich as f**k because of no O2, and those headers get real hot real fast. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fiveoformula Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 1799 Location: OR
1988 Pontiac Formula
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Makes sense I suppose. I guess temps just go up in the combustion chamber when you have to much timing?? thus causing the fuel to ignite from the heat, not spark? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This didn't take long to get way off topic.
With too much advance the flame front from the plug will hit the piston face while it is still traveling upwards, trying to force the engine to run backwards.
Preignition from heat alone would be caused by carbon buildup, a poorly milled surface with casting flash, a protruding gasket lip, or something like that. Because it is separated from the heatsink of the head or block it gets hot enough to auto-ignite the mix. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Schultzy89GTA M.R.A. (11sec Club)
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 4415 Location: Gresham, OR
1989 Pontiac GTA
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
... it heats them up until they melt and drip! They also make cool crop circles on my friend's lawn
-Schultzy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|