Cascade Crew

BluFbdy · Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject: To tune or not to tube

So I've been driving the car daily since the swap with minimal issues and I'm around 3k on the motor, I'm thinking about tuning it and I was hoping to get advice from the gurus of the subject. I posted on thirdgen with nothing but pm's from people saying hey ill do it for you for $x. Which isn't exactly helpful, I realize that there is no "need" to tune because it runs and the cam isn't all that much different however on the low end of the rpm scale its kinda sluggish and around 3k it opens up, goes rich and according to Luke blows smoke from too much fuel lol I was advised by a guy to check out the super aujp bin but it may need modification, can anyone point me in the right direction on this? There is potential that I'm not achieving with the stock aujp and I would like to learn how to get it through tuning, but i need guidance on the subject, Aaron mentioned something about curving the timing but again lost on the subject, anyone wanna give me the crash course??

BluFbdy · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:42 pm Post subject:

So on a serious note Luke and ibare trying to figure out tuning. Does anyone have any advice to offer? I can mess with piddly things but what about modifying tables? Like real differences, tgo is a waste they just say if you don't know don't do it....well that's great advice but how the hell am I supposed to learn?!

My brains hurting from working with the saujp and checking what I need to modify Bashy Bashy

Any tips?

Twilightoptics · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:34 am Post subject:

It's really hard to give you "tips" over the web without direct questions. So I'm not really sure what it is you're looking for or trying to accomplish.

Change your fueling to get close to 128blm.

When I tune from scratch I clear all the timing modifiers and build my own timing table to suit my needs for the engine.

BluFbdy · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:42 am Post subject:

I guess in a nutshell, a crash course? A resource on tuning like how changing values effects the others and so on, there are over half the values I have no clue Wtf they do, and as for tables....probably won't touch those for a while because they're intimidating to me. There's not exactly a quick start guide to the process but that's basically what I'm looking for

aaron_sK · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:05 am Post subject:

BluFbdy · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:22 am Post subject:

I'm lacking any kind of familiarization with it lol I cab plug whatever I want in that doesn't mean it will run, I just don't know a good starting point because obviously practice is going to be key, I don't know what looks right, or wrong for that matter lol right now I've got 2 bins, one is the one Luke and I modified to run my car, its super rich. The other is a bin that a tgo member made, idle is nice, less fuel, but it drives like a choked out turd. What do I do to fix it? Go through using the difference tool correct? Problem is I'm not sure which values to edit before it changes the tune to recreate the symptoms that I don't like with the other tune

aaron_sK · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:26 am Post subject:

Always start with factory BIN for your year and transmission.

BluFbdy · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:29 am Post subject:

Haha that wouldn't work sd tpi in a maf year car remember? Lol

aaron_sK · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:33 am Post subject:

The actual year of manufacture has nothing to do with the correct year of chip. You would use the BIN for a '91 F-car with whatever engine and trans.

If you have a non-stock combo (350 w/manual for instance) you will have to do a compare between the file with the right trans and transfer stuff over.

http://gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/bin/

BluFbdy · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:43 am Post subject:

Hmm ok the bin mrwillys made was based off a 305tpi with a t5 and he modified the sparktable with a few other things, the blms are much better while driving compared to the aujp, with the aujp the blms sit around 106 on the freeway and the rich/lean screams rich. The donated one has a much better idle and blm/int while driving is in the 125 range and it stays blue but its choked while accelerating, would be good to just compare the tansmission settings over to the aujp andthe blms? Or should iI just copy the spark and timing from the aujp over to the donor?

Too many options get me lost fast I normally work in an ordered fashion lol this is chaos to me

aaron_sK · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:03 am Post subject:

I have had the best results by using the correct BIN for the engine and copying changes from a BIN with the correct transmission.

Basically you want to pay attention to the things that logically affect the transmission (bottom half of the spark table, idle speed vs coolant temp, TPS stuff, ect.)

BluFbdy · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:05 am Post subject:

That second part is where I get lost lol I can justify anything to relate to the transmission in my head, wether its correct or not idk, is there a list anywhere for the functions of each value, some of them are easy to figure out but others I'm just like Wtf is that???

Twilightoptics · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:12 am Post subject:

Start with a SD bin that you KNOW is good. Personally the ones found on the web tend to be junk. I like to find someone with what I need and copy the chip directly, unstack it and work on that file.

Then think like this: the numbers in a cell often don't MEAN anything. When you make changes make them based on a percentage of the number in the cell.

Example: 3000RPM and 75KPA you find you're at 10:!AFR. Let's say you want 13.5:1. The value in the cell is 138. Start out small because running rich wont blow up your engine, but lean will. So roughly, and I say rough because it's not an exact science but gets you close as the engine doesn't read numbers it just burns what it gets, you're 35% too rich. Take 138 x .65 = 89.7. Now because I said it's not an exact science, I'd put 110 in the value, smooth out the map around it. The map should always be smooth otherwise that's where surging and weird stuff happens as the engine is making drastic changes with little changes to sensory input.

And go drive it. You need to watch your BLMS for closed loop operation. Acceleration enrichment and WOT you need a wide band. Period.

If you don't understand any of the terms I've used, you need to put the chip burning pieces down and do some more research and ask more questions.

Also, you should email me the current BIN that you have along with the definition file you're using. Are you using TunerPro?! (I Hope)

Twilightoptics · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:15 am Post subject:

I also need all the details of the engine: Bore/stroke/compression/what heads/cam/transmission/rear gears etc

Then tell me where it runs bad. You have data logs, look at them. What is the motor doing? What RPM? What MAP? Steady state? BLMS are?

flea · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:35 am Post subject:

aaron_sK · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:40 am Post subject:

Jim your engine is bone stock so all you need to do is delete VATS and maybe make some other little changes.

flea · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:50 am Post subject:

I know, don't want to hijack the thread, just seeing what the advice is. Seems for me the advice is 'drop the chalupa.'
Not everything was foreign to me, just the details. And we all know who lives there.

161 hp..... Wtf.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:10 am Post subject:

This a 350 now or another 305 you put in there? Start another thread and we can diag from there. Also post up your dyno run with AFR graph.

aaron_sK · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:13 am Post subject:

He is running Jess' 305 with a speed density setup. eBay chip. Pig rich.

flea · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:16 am Post subject:

It's another 305.,
Yeah I'll start a new thread later.