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91camaro_rs Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 1712 Location: Fox Island, Wa
1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:56 pm Post subject: my friend cant get his car going |
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ok so my friend has an 87 2.8 t5 car. and for some reason we can start it and it runs for two seconds and dies, we can keep it running with ether, i tried to adjust iac and tps but you cant put it in diagnostic mode for some reason. its not a vats car, he has new iac, tps, injectors, maf. the fuel pump is hard wired to a switch idk why he said he couldnt get it to work normally so he threw a toggle on it.
any ideas?? _________________
'91 Camaro RS 5.7 TPI- 700r4- 3.27 posi- headers- chambered exhaust- |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: my friend cant get his car going |
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91camaro_rs wrote: | i tried to adjust iac and tps but you cant put it in diagnostic mode for some reason |
Does the SES light work properly (i.e. flash and then steady on KOEO and then out on KOER)?
91camaro_rs wrote: | new iac, tps, injectors, maf |
Wow. That's more in new parts than an LB8 car is worth.
91camaro_rs wrote: | the fuel pump is hard wired to a switch idk why he said he couldnt get it to work normally so he threw a toggle on it. |
Does the relay work? If so, is the relay getting signal from the ECM? |
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91camaro_rs Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 1712 Location: Fox Island, Wa
1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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i dont think the SES light works at all he said only like 2 of his dash lights work. the fuel pump relay is new as well, i tried to get my laptop to connect to it but it wouldnt work _________________
'91 Camaro RS 5.7 TPI- 700r4- 3.27 posi- headers- chambered exhaust- |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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If it runs on ether and you cant keep itnrunning with th e throttle open its a fuel delivery issue. Start with fuel pressu. _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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MrMike98 Member
Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 231 Location: Bremerton
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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sounds like more than one issue....
but the current problem could be do to an electrical problem between the oil pressure sending unit and fuel pump relay.....i beleive low or no oil pressure signal might be an issue here... |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Oil pressure switch doesn't work like that.
It is designed to trigger the pump in case of relay failure.
Regardless, it sounds as if that system has already been poorly bypassed. |
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91RSVert Member
Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 2736 Location: AR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:49 am Post subject: |
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Would the cold start injector not working cause this?
Fuel pressure is another good one to check. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:13 am Post subject: |
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91RSVert wrote: | Would the cold start injector not working cause this? |
No. You can start a car with a failed CSI system using ether. |
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91RSVert Member
Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 2736 Location: AR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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aaron_sK wrote: | No. You can start a car with a failed CSI system using ether. |
ok I had never dealt with a csi system. |
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BluFbdy Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 Posts: 915 Location: Port Orchard WA
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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It's very confusing, I went over there and ran over the basics with like and Brandon, its getting 45 psi to the fuel rail, new injectors so no blockage there, his tps is showing source voltage on the reference wire for some reason which I think may be part of it, I got ballsy with ether and had it going for 4 seconds as opposed to the 2 it normally ran, I'm at a loss myself on this one _________________ If you expect a kick to the balls and get a slap to the face its still a victory
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Are the injectors getting a proper pulse from the ECM?
I'd bet this is a wiring or ECM issue, possibly faulty ground. |
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BluFbdy Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 Posts: 915 Location: Port Orchard WA
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: |
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I didn't have any of my tools with me so I couldn't really do any checks on that, ill throw a test light on his injectors next time I'm over there _________________ If you expect a kick to the balls and get a slap to the face its still a victory
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Is it holding fuel pressure foe the 2 seconds? Maybe jump the pump on and try again.
If its a maf car' disconnect thr maf and try. _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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91camaro_rs Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 1712 Location: Fox Island, Wa
1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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we tried using a brand new ecm and that didnt help, and we did a noid light test and they worked. gotta be something electrical, like something cut somewhere or something _________________
'91 Camaro RS 5.7 TPI- 700r4- 3.27 posi- headers- chambered exhaust- |
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BluFbdy Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 Posts: 915 Location: Port Orchard WA
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Could a bad ground screw with the injectors and give the tps source voltage on the blue wire? _________________ If you expect a kick to the balls and get a slap to the face its still a victory
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Slow down guys.
If the noid light says the injectors are firing, and you can 100% confirm fuel pressure is there and STAYS there.... then it's time to put a timing light on it and see if it's sparking properly.
I've seen a lot of maf cars with a big vacuum leak or bad maf, do the flare up then die and no amount of throttle will keep it going.
Must start with the basics! FUEL/AIR/SPARK! _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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BluFbdy Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 Posts: 915 Location: Port Orchard WA
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Twilightoptics wrote: | Slow down guys.
If the noid light says the injectors are firing, and you can 100% confirm fuel pressure is there and STAYS there.... then it's time to put a timing light on it and see if it's sparking properly.
I've seen a lot of maf cars with a big vacuum leak or bad maf, do the flare up then die and no amount of throttle will keep it going.
Must start with the basics! FUEL/AIR/SPARK! |
I've asked if he checked the timing chain because he said one day it just quit running which would be my guess, and he replaced the maf so that would be my first guess _________________ If you expect a kick to the balls and get a slap to the face its still a victory
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:37 am Post subject: |
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This pertinent info should have been mentionee in the original post..... roll eyes _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Twilightoptics wrote: | Slow down guys. |
You Peninsula dudes are like the Jackson Pollack of auto mechanics. You just keep throwing parts at it till it works!
Luke said in the very first post that the car can be kept running on ether. That means that the spark, timing, timing chain and probably the MAF can be ruled out.
In all of this new parts shopping spree has anyone checked to see if all the plugs are consistently wet?
It has occurred to me that when John dumped his LB8 car out at my place I had a similar issue where it would run on ether but would not stay running. Turned out that a shorted injector had blown one of the bank fuses and the car would not run on the other bank alone.
One other thought while I'm still hung over: Never ever assume that because you replaced something with a new part that it "can't be that." Ask these pro mechanics how much DOA they see , especially if you shop at AutoZone/O'Rielly's/whatever, and buy the low-end stuff. |
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BluFbdy Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 Posts: 915 Location: Port Orchard WA
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:21 am Post subject: |
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aaron_sK wrote: | Twilightoptics wrote: | Slow down guys. |
You Peninsula dudes are like the Jackson Pollack of auto mechanics. You just keep throwing parts at it till it works!
Luke said in the very first post that the car can be kept running on ether. That means that the spark, timing, timing chain and probably the MAF can be ruled out.
In all of this new parts shopping spree has anyone checked to see if all the plugs are consistently wet?
It has occurred to me that when John dumped his LB8 car out at my place I had a similar issue where it would run on ether but would not stay running. Turned out that a shorted injector had blown one of the bank fuses and the car would not run on the other bank alone.
One other thought while I'm still hung over: Never ever assume that because you replaced something with a new part that it "can't be that." Ask these pro mechanics how much DOA they see , especially if you shop at AutoZone/O'Rielly's/whatever, and buy the low-end stuff. |
Alright to be fair, I'm not too terribly big on throwing parts at something, I also didn't have any tools while I was there lol Brandon said it just died one day, so I asked if they found spark, Yup, asked if they had psi at the rail, Yup. Then I said the injectors would be the last spot where the issue could be if it checks put from pickup to rail, he went out and replaced the parts as he saw necessary hoping to fond the culprit. He said that one day the whole thing just quit running, and he hasn't gotten to to work since. When I sprayed the ether it only ran for a few seconds longer until we tried to give it gas then the intake would make a bog sound when the plate was opened then either die or backfire on us supposedly the timing is good and the valves are properly adjusted .
90% of the work minus the ether was not me so I'm running on second hand info _________________ If you expect a kick to the balls and get a slap to the face its still a victory
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