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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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 Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: Head Swap is happening! |
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Looking at buying a set of slightly used but checked out by a machine shop RHS Pro Action 200cc heads with studs and guideplates and .600" springs fully assembled. From what I can tell, these heads are pretty good. Any negatives? I would be paying around $700 shipped.
I would then need a different cam and a good set of rockers and pushrods.
This would push my motor into a pretty good power range I feel, seeing as I did 280hp at the wheels with my non-ported 624 casting smog heads and a small cam with .442 lift and 214 duration.
Any thoughts?
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84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow
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Twilightoptics
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Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Basically the heads I had. Paid $850 for them brand new. If I did it over, is go aluminum brodix.
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Alphius
Peanut
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Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Paul, did you have aluminum heads or iron? Yours were 200cc? What power did you put down on the dyno?
The ones I'm looking at are aluminum.
Multiple dyno tests out there that I'm finding are showing around 400-420hp at the fly with alternator and mech. water pump on these heads and 350 displacement.
These just look like a good value for the money.  Bolt on 80 extra HP, why not? 
Brodix couldn't be that much better for almost double the cost. I can only find Brodix IK 200 for around $1200.
This would raise my compression ratio from ~9.2:1 static to somewhere in the mid-low 10's due to going from 76cc to 64cc chambers. I don't know exactly what I'll get because I took my machinist's word on the CR the first time I installed so I need to measure deck height and valve relief CC to get an exact number.
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Twilightoptics
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1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Mine were Iron. They were Pro Top Line. RHS bought them and the casting/tooling. 200cc/64cc. My compression was about 9.6:1 and I had that big Lunati solid cam. 330/330 RWHP/TQ
Aluminum would be good. Sounds like a good deal then.
I forget the specs on my cam right now. I can look it up when I get home.
over 10:1 with aluminum is okay. Roller motor? You might just bolt them bad boys on, tune and see what she does with the cam that's there. You can always swap the cam later which is easy.
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Alphius
Peanut
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Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | Mine were Iron. They were Pro Top Line. RHS bought them and the casting/tooling. 200cc/64cc. My compression was about 9.6:1 and I had that big Lunati solid cam. 330/330 RWHP/TQ
Aluminum would be good. Sounds like a good deal then.
I forget the specs on my cam right now. I can look it up when I get home.
over 10:1 with aluminum is okay. Roller motor? You might just bolt them bad boys on, tune and see what she does with the cam that's there. You can always swap the cam later which is easy. |
Ahh, I see, I think Rod has Pro Top Line irons too.
Wish my motor was roller.  I am running a hydraulic flat tappet right now. Pretty small cam but it did have a great under-the-curve torque band. Over 300RWTQ from 3000-5500 IIRC. Cam specs: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-K1103/
Now that I think of it, I could make up some lift if I went with 1.6:1 rockers and kept my current cam.
Hoping I could get at least 350RWHP with a good tune and over 10:1 CR. Reasonable wish? Need a cam change for that? I just don't think my cam would be as well matched as it is right now if I got those heads.
Part of me wants to do this, the other part wants to just drop in an LS1/T56 (but then I would have wasted my time and money on the Megasquirt, shortblock, intake, etc.) These heads on my current motor would make more than a stock LS1 anyway. I'm already about at LS1 numbers but with better low-end torque and a small sacrifice on top-end HP.
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Twilightoptics
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1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hefty wish. Those heads should flow about what mine did. Rod has iron's like me. Cam makes a huge difference too. Harold told me to run the cam I had, and made those numbers. Rod made 300 with a Comp Cam. I suppose another 20hp is doable.
I was running 1.6 roller rockers as well. And I forget your exhaust setup but You'll want something decent. Figure Mike lost some 30hp going from dual 3" to dual 2.5". I ran dual 3".
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83Z28BlackBetty
Bam-Ba-Lam
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 2083
Location: Aloha
1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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you know you just want to bolt on 50 hp and not have to worry about swapping an entire new motor... lol
Sorry, i have nothing relevant to say. |
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | Hefty wish. Those heads should flow about what mine did. Rod has iron's like me. Cam makes a huge difference too. Harold told me to run the cam I had, and made those numbers. Rod made 300 with a Comp Cam. I suppose another 20hp is doable.
I was running 1.6 roller rockers as well. And I forget your exhaust setup but You'll want something decent. Figure Mike lost some 30hp going from dual 3" to dual 2.5". I ran dual 3". |
I think I could do it with over 10:1 CR and some good MegaSquirt tuning. Always set your goals high, right? At some point my exhaust will be a problem since it is only true dual 2.5".
Sadly, I won't get a chance to prove that I can cash the check my mouth just wrote since the guy sold the heads out from under me to a local buyer.
I'm gonna keep looking for deals because I think the price/performance ratio of buying a set of real heads is better than swapping to an LS1/T56 at this point in time when my motor makes almost the same HP and more torque than a stock LS1 as it sits.
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84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Update: His local buyer backed out and I'm getting them! It'll be interesting to see what I can do with these bad boys. I think I will be keeping my current cam for now though, so 350RWHP might be a little difficult to get. 
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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So, I've got a couple questions on my head swap for you guys:
1. What 1.6 roller rockers should I get? Looking for a good set that won't completely break the bank.
2. Gonna gasket match the heads and intake as best I can, looking to go for a 1205 size, good idea?
3. Anybody had any trouble running a shim type head gasket? I think I'm gonna look into this to bump the CR a bit. I will be measuring deck height and calculating quench area too, is around .040 a pretty good quench are to shoot for? Block is decked but I don't know the deck height exactly. Or piston volume. Both I will need to calculate. I should end up between 10:1 and 10.5:1 after the heads are on after some rough calculations.
Hoping to get this going by dyno! My new heads were shipped today.
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Twilightoptics
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1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Alphius wrote: | So, I've got a couple questions on my head swap for you guys:
1. What 1.6 roller rockers should I get? Looking for a good set that won't completely break the bank.
2. Gonna gasket match the heads and intake as best I can, looking to go for a 1205 size, good idea?
3. Anybody had any trouble running a shim type head gasket? I think I'm gonna look into this to bump the CR a bit. I will be measuring deck height and calculating quench area too, is around .040 a pretty good quench are to shoot for? Block is decked but I don't know the deck height exactly. Or piston volume. Both I will need to calculate. I should end up between 10:1 and 10.5:1 after the heads are on after some rough calculations.
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1. I was incredibly happy with my Comp Pro Magnums and wouldn't cheap out for anything. I know others have gotten away with Aluminums but to me Aluminum and something that moves that much is not a good idea.
2. 1205 is the perfect HSR size. Keep in mind, since there are no dowels to center the intake or gasket, do NOT port anything until you test fit the heads. Depending on block, heads, intake etc if you port match by the gasket alone, it may never line up like the gasket is straight. You're working with a square fitting here if you think about it. Set the heads on, set the HSR base on with the bolts and look down the holes. I think you'll find the 1205 is pretty much a perfect fit for the HSR and the Pro style 200cc intake runner heads. I didn't bother porting mine because it wasn't worth my time. Taking the time to center the gasket and the intake seemed a much more worthy stratagy.
3. Steel shim is perfect. 0.040 quench is 100% ideal. Measure then do the math. If you use the shim, it's like Felpro 1034 or 1094 something like that. Thoroughly use copper coat on both sides and make sure the surfaces are clean. I've been through 3 sets of those (for various rebuild reasons) and never had a problem. I was old by Mike Lewis a great engine building that the rubber coated steel shim gasket that's 0.015 compressed thickness that we are talking about IS infact okay to use with copper coat on an IRON block with ALUMINUM heads.
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Alphius
Peanut
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Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Great advice. Thanks Paul.
That's pretty much what I was thinking on everything. Great to have some confirmation.
Can't wait to get it all together.
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83Z28BlackBetty
Bam-Ba-Lam
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Location: Aloha
1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Score! That sounds so awesome. I'm curious how much power you will pick up. |
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Curious: This switch is taking me from straight plugs to angle plugs. My headers are designed for an L98/LB9 thirdgen, which had angle plugs already, right? If anything, I am thinking this should increase plug clearance. (Or at least hoping.  )
Heads are scheduled to arrive Friday! I will start the teardown most likely after Christmas.
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Twilightoptics
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1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Alphius wrote: | Curious: This switch is taking me from straight plugs to angle plugs. My headers are designed for an L98/LB9 thirdgen, which had angle plugs already, right? If anything, I am thinking this should increase plug clearance. (Or at least hoping. )
Heads are scheduled to arrive Friday! I will start the teardown most likely after Christmas. |
L98/LB9 had straight plugs.
Hedman headers I know clear angle plugs easily. Make sure you test a spark plug before you install the heads, because some hex lengths are different, IE the same Autolite vs NGK. With my heads I couldn't get a socket in deep enough with the NGK and ran autolites as a result. The distance from the sealing surface to the hex on the plug was different.
Use 90deg boot plug wires on all plugs.
There was one or two that a standard plug socket wouldn't fit. So what I did was take a plug socket and put an old plug in it. Then cut the end of the socket off right at the hex portion of the plug. Then use a 3/4" ratcheting wrench. Ended up using that combo for all the plugs cause it worked that much better.
Remember antisieze on the plug threads.
Happy hunting!
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91RSVert
Member
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 2736
Location: AR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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I ended up buying a set of tools that are for running nuts down all-thread.
Bits basically a funky ratchet wrench, but it has sockets that snap inside. I got them at the parts store, but sears sells a better version of it. |
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I already have to run 90 degree plug wire ends on all 8.
Crossing my fingers that the angle plugs work with my headers. Thanks for the tips on installation, I might end up in that boat as well.
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Heads came today! They look really good. Double valvesprings, CNC chambers, everything is really clean (barely used), and they only weigh about 20lb per head! 
So since I have guide plates am I correct in assuming that I do not need to buy self-aligning rockers?
I am very excited! 
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Twilightoptics
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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You are correct. Use guide plates or self aligning. Not both.
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Alphius
Peanut
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1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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