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You know, I never started a project thread
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure you can buy anything except straight for LS engine. That's why I'm happy the MSD boots are designed to be bent and take a set wherever you put them.
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... this was the closest I could find:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACF-748FF/

...and at that price I'd say f**k 'em. Bend the MSD's and run the retardant condoms. Laughing
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my new Hawks 2" headers and exhaust system (Stainless Works). First impression is that it looks ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC! I knew the headers would be very nice, but the exhaust system blew me away. This is the kind of stuff you see from custom rod shops, and don't expect from off-the-shelf mail order. I am very happy, assuming it all fits in the car!

Very cold weather moved in today so now the garage is too cold to have fun. I tracked some snow inside the garage and it hasn't melted at all.
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IROCDave
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a NG furnace in garage, cut in a closeable vent in the main supply duct. Trust me, it works great. I didnt realize my home had this untill a couple weeks ago. My old labrador has benifitted greatly ever since I opened up the diffuser.

Keep the pics flowing.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all is quite as wonderful as it seems. There is a huge misalignment of header and Y-pipe. Maybe it will work out when I see where the pipes need to go in the car. The driver side pipe is a slip fit near the Y so it can be wriggled into different positions.





I took the engine off the stand and fit up the stock T56 flywheel housing. It fits with very small amount of clearance. The Quick Time flywheel housing would need significant trimming to fit, as you can see by the placement of the plate.



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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave my fuel tank wire harness away with the fuel tank thinking I would just buy a new Weatherpack connector for the rear firewall. LOL! That's not been an easy task finding that little sucker. Been regretting doing that but I finally found the correct keyway at Mouser and Ballenger Motorsports. So that is sorted out.

But what I've really been spending some time on is looking into options for underhood electrical center. I don't like the cheapo fuse blocks that most people make with parts from Autozone. And 4th gen electrical centers cost a fortune and most are corroded and looking nasty. What I've found is Cooper Bussmann and Delphi.

Cooper Bussmann make a blank box that you can order with different options of buss bars, uses Metri-pack 280 connectors, and is sealed with a nice lid. Just load it with your wires, fuses, and relays.
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann/transportation/products/power_distribution/power_distribution_modules/series_15300_rtmr.html
It also looks like Delphi sells OE style modular electrical centers. I'm really interested in this option (page 311). http://delphi.com/pdf/contact/brochures/DCS_GlobalCatalog.pdf

I need to sketch out how I want the circuits set up and then choose my electrical center.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deleted

Last edited by QwkTrip on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:14 pm; edited 3 times in total
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a stab at the fuel system wiring. I have a 4th gen fuel tank with Racetronix Hot Wire kit so that has to be built in. I'm not educated on how to draw schematics properly so I just do what works for my mind.

The Racetronix relay is all the way back by the tank and I don't need/want the stock 3rd gen relay any longer. It's no loss because those 3rd gen fuel pump relays are total pile of junk and the connectors short out. I'm still going to use the original wire bundle that routes to the back of the car. The original power to 3rd gen fuel pump is now signal to Racetronix fuel pump relay. The original fuel gage sender wire is still needed, but the last wire in the bundle will become the ground for fuel gage sender, since the 4th gen tank is plastic and I need to add a fuel sender ground.

The Racetronix harness has redundant heavy ground wires that is added to increase fuel pump performance. I'll make this my primary ground to body. Also, when the Racetronix harness is used with 4th gen car the relay coil ground is sent back to body harness, but I'm all out of wires in my 3rd gen harness so I'm dead ending that wire at the connector and relying on the body ground.

By the way, if you need to replace the Weather-Pack connector at the back of the car the Delphi part number is 12020829. And yes, it was a pain in the rear to find that.



Last edited by QwkTrip on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:05 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Dewey316
The Lama


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 7295
Location: Bringing the tech

1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume somewhere you have 12v going to the relay? Grounding the trigger side of a relay with no 12v, that has a redundant ground on the other side of the relay won't do much.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R9 terminal in the engine PCM is fuel pump control and is 12V supply.

The factory LS1 fuel pump relay ground is at the rear of cylinder head. It seems that location is used as common ground for PCM driven devices. The Racetronix relay is all the way back by the tank. It's important to run the relay field ground back to the common PCM ground plane on cylinder head so that there are no ground loops and other PCM drivers don't actuate unexpectedly.

The redundant ground is part of the Racetronix harness and uses a pretty large gage wire. I opted for the extra heavy battery cable ground too. Maybe it's a good idea to divorce the fuel pump ground in the back of the car from the relay field ground.
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Dewey316
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
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Location: Bringing the tech

1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The PCM supplies 12v? Normally the PCM grounds the circuit and 12v is supplied from the fuse box.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate you asking questions. It is the best way to help me make sure I did this right.

The PCM has both high side drivers (supply voltage) and low side drivers (sink to ground). Chevy chose to use a high side driver for LS1 fuel pump relay. You can see fuel pump wiring diagram on page 22 of the 2000 Camaro wiring schematic. Notice terminal A8 of Fuel Pump Relay traces back to the PCM terminal 9 (that's Red 9, or R9) on page 23.
http://cascadecrew.org/LSx%20Info/2000%20Camaro%20system%20wiring%20diagrams.pdf

Normally the high current side of relay (power contacts) does go back to a fuse block, but in this case Racetronix made an add-on kit and provided an in-line fuse and cable that goes straight to alternator or battery.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the other thing I'll point out is that the LS1 does not have a low oil pressure shut-off for fuel pump like the 3rd gen does, so if the oil pressure drops like a rock I'll have to shut down the engine myself. You can adapt the 3rd gen oil pressure gauge to the engine and wire up the low oil pressure switch if you want. But I don't want. I'd rather maintain control of the car and choose to shut down vs. just driving along and losing power suddenly. If oil pressure is lost I think there will be a check engine light on the dash (although I'm not entirely sure about that).
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iansane
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 5740
Location: Bothell

1991 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QwkTrip wrote:
I guess the other thing I'll point out is that the LS1 does not have a low oil pressure shut-off for fuel pump like the 3rd gen does, so if the oil pressure drops like a rock I'll have to shut down the engine myself. You can adapt the 3rd gen oil pressure gauge to the engine and wire up the low oil pressure switch if you want. But I don't want. I'd rather maintain control of the car and choose to shut down vs. just driving along and losing power suddenly. If oil pressure is lost I think there will be a check engine light on the dash (although I'm not entirely sure about that).


Duh
Thirdgens don't have low oil pressure shutoffs.

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Sometimes I actually think I'm slightly retarded in the mouth.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think mine does. That's how the fuel pump is primed. Or am I mixing up functions of the oil pressure switch? My old Chilton's manual has incomplete schematics so it's hard to know.
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iansane
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 5740
Location: Bothell

1991 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, the oil pressure switch setup is designed so that when the car sees enough oil pressure it will bypass the fuel pump relay. So in cases where the fuel pump relay has gone bad, the car can still be run. It doesn't, however, cut power when there is not enough oil pressure. It's just a fail safe so that you always have power to the fuel pump.

When I first bought my car I did not know this and whenever the car was cold I had crazy long crank times (like 10-20 seconds). As soon as I finally looked into it, I was just cranking the motor until I built up oil pressure and bypassing the failed relay. Replaced the relay and insta-start. Very Happy
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The factory oil pressure switch triggers the fuel pump in case of relay failure. It does not turn the fuel pump off in case of engine failure.

An oil pressure kill is not a bad idea on an ECM car and is damn near required on a carb car with an electric pump.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! Smile That makes me feel better I'm not giving up functionality.

What did you do for the oil pressure sender? I'm seeing different stories on whether or not the LS1 oil pressure sender gives good readings on stock 3rd gen gauge. And was there a year when the gauge technology changed so that it does integrate better with LS1 PCM? I'm getting the idea Firebird had updated gauges before Camaro, but I'm not sure what it entails.
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83Z28BlackBetty
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 2083
Location: Aloha

1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuse box food for though, instead of having switched power power up the hot side of each relay, consider having a "main relay" that will power up the fuse block. So instead, ignition power switches the main relay, which in turn switches on all the the other relays and powers the rest of fuses. So anything else under the hood that needs 12v that is not relay powered can get power from the main relay instead of ignition power. just be sure to keep an extra relay in case it burns out. lol

Does this make sense? its how i wired up my under hood wiring harness and it takes a huge load off the standard ignition power.

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1983 Z-28 5.7 LT1, T56, Headman headers, BW 9 Bolt Posi Disc, WS6 suspension
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, that's the way I started looking at it because it would be easier, but then I realized the relay is between battery and fuse, so the fuse doesn't protect against relay failure. And these micro relay coils only pull about 0.1 Amp each so the switched load is extremely low.
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