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You know, I never started a project thread
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject: You know, I never started a project thread Reply with quote

So here it is, my Firebird project thread!


---- USEFUL LINKS ----

Here is reference info that I have found useful.

General reference
LS1 crate engine manual http://cascadecrew.org/LSx%20Info/LS1_Engine_Kit.pdf
LS1 fastener torque specifications http://cascadecrew.org/LSx%20Info/LS%20Torque%20Specs.pdf
2000 Camaro wiring schematics http://cascadecrew.org/LSx%20Info/2000%20Camaro%20system%20wiring%20diagrams.pdf
LS engine info http://www.chevythunder.com/ls1_page_1.htm
Oil priming a LS engine http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1428508-oil-priming-new-crate-ls3-engine.html


Wiring
Wire crimping guide http://www.bmotorsports.com/download/products/wiring/Crimp-Poster-Guide.pdf
LS conversion manual http://www.team3rdgen.com/modules.php?name=3rdGenLS1
Wiring harness start to finish http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/544768-ls1-harness-start-finish.html
Additional wiring info http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/548647-additional-swap-information.html
Wiring harness revisited, abridged version http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/563800-ls1-harness-revisited.html
LS1 PCM pinouts and other swap info http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/312119-ls1-swap-faqs.html
Places to mount PCM. Post #10 is interesting. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/638794-mounting-pcm-engine-bay.html

Identifying types of connector pins http://www.rowand.net/shop/tech/automotiveelectricalconnectors.htm
Identifying common connectors in 3rd gen and 4th gen harness http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/573725-connector-id-pn-interchanges.html
Identifying 4th gen connectors C100, C101, C102, C105, C220, C230 http://www.team3rdgen.com/modules/3rdGenLS1/Wiring.htm

Oil pressure sending unit for gauge http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/544230-help-using-3rd-gen.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1425978-factory-gen-iii-oil-pressure-sender-can-plug-into-gauge.html
Using '98 engine temp sensor for gauge http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/608522-im-going-lsx-would.html
MAP sensor in LS3 manifold http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/980222-ls2-map-sensor-ls3-intake.html


Fuel system
Making fuel gauge work http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/373779-how-modify-ls1-fuel-2.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/565520-modifying-stock-gauge-40-a.html
LS1 plastic fuel tank http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/342745-ls1-fuel-tank-plastic.html
Another fuel tank install http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/557472-ls1-gas-tank-do.html
Walbro fuel pump install http://www.gonicd.com/intankinstall/intankpumpinstall.html


Engine ignition
Truck coils (needed to clear A/C box on firewall) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/1165767-truck-coil-information-thread-plug-wires.html
Desirable coils to use http://ls1tech.com/forums/12985321-post1.html
Spark plug boot fitment http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/561931-ls1-3-spark-plug.html


Cooling system
Radiator hoses http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/609181-lets-talk-about-lower.html
Lower radiator hose from Jeep Cherokee http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/278621-ls1-stock-radiator-2.html
You'll see all kinds of methods by browsing people's build threads.


K-member and clearance for oil pan
Why you don't want Spohn. I can post example after example, but this one will do. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/329323-hawks-tubular-k-member.html
Cutting stock K-member for A/C http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/305967-so-about-ac-compressor.html


Clutch pedal
3rd gen vs. 4th gen http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/520339-3rd-gen-vs-4th.html


Trans crossmember & exhaust
Why you don't want Spohn (again) http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/548614-read-post-37-those.html
Hawk's double hump version & a mod for remote mount torque arm http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/563880-whos-running-hawks-new.html
Fitting a 4L80E http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/568623-i-should-not-left-10.html
Modifying 3rd gen clutch pedal http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/623164-3rd-gen-pedals-clutch.html

Exhaust is a bit of a pain and ground clearance is major issue. Each one of these threads might have an exhaust routing you like. Just going to list them all.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/body/386427-phase-i-done-phase-31.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/596054-3in-4in-y-pipe.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/exhaust/570922-4th-gen-exhaust.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/exhaust/378898-looking-catback-start-here.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/427101-round-2-my-87-a.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/exhaust/592336-sw-long-tube-headers.html
Scroll down to see how he did torque arm mount and exhaust http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/628475-gen-iii-3rd-gen.html


Last edited by QwkTrip on Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:23 am; edited 18 times in total
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aaron_sK
Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: You know, I never started a project thread Reply with quote

QwkTrip wrote:
Don't post yet.


Huh?











Razz
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flea
Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1246
Location: Raymond WA

1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He said, and I quote.

"sin embargo, no publiques"

Now you gone and ruined it. Now he has to start over. Rolling Eyes

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aaron_sK
Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

however, do not post

Something seems to have been lost in the translation.

I blame poor engineering. Surprised
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flea
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1246
Location: Raymond WA

1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame google translate.

But he still has to start over.

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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1992: Young little QwkTrip with his first car. 1989 Firebird, base model 2.8L, 5 speed manual, with air conditioning and rear window defrost option. Bought from the original owner, Mustafa Mustafa. I remember the name because it was so good he used it twice.

I had driven a stick shift once on my uncle's farm when I was younger. To my dad's amazement I somehow drove the Firebird home alone. He shrugged his shoulders and never gave it another thought to teach me anything about driving a manual and I didn't think to ask. I thought the car was slower than heck though, until two weeks later I realized I could downshift to rev up the engine. Laughing Funny what you don't know when nobody teaches you.

Can't have a Firebird without having a window banner telling everybody it is a FIREBIRD. That's what kids do.


The 2.8L engine in all it's glory.


Last edited by QwkTrip on Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang it, Aaron! Can't you read? Razz
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you guys think you know about all the engines I had for the Firebird, but you don't. The first V8 swap idea I had was a blown 350 with a B&M 144. That was pure sweetness in the '90s and I had just found a catalog called, Summit Racing. I was young and had a little bit of money saved up. I can't count the hours spent thumbing through the pages of Summit Racing.

Anyway, I went down to the Chevy dealer and ordered up a brand new 4 bolt main 350 block and a rotating assembly out of Summit catalog. The first block had a lot of rust on the main bearing bolt threads. So did the 2nd. So did the 3rd. My little problem actually shut down engine block production at GM until they figured out why. Turns out the blocks were rusting during outdoor storage in Portland, Oregon... where it is wet. Imagine that. I finally got a perfect block and put together a little blower short block. I eventually changed my mind and bought a ZZ4 crate engine. Sold the short block to some guy with a Nova who put Vortec heads on it and loved it.

Yes, that engine is inside the house. Laughing I was very particular and my parents were patient.


Last edited by QwkTrip on Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the ZZ4 was none too soon because I barely had it home when my Firebird had a little problem pushing coolant into the engine oil. Could have fixed it, but why? Just looking for an excuse to start the swap anyway and I had a '68 El Camino to drive in the meantime. I literally had no clue what I was doing though. I just knew the bigger engine had to go in where the smaller engine came out.

Literally a few days later my El Camino jumped a timing chain. ZZ4 went in the El Camino. Never owned a car in worse condition. Never had so much fun in a car. I just love ugly sleepers that can rape Corvettes. The latest Corvette was the LT1 so I was pretty quick.



Last edited by QwkTrip on Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I drove the Elky for maybe 1-1/2 years and sold it and kept the ZZ4. Now it goes in the Firebird with a RPM intake and an upgraded cam, Tremek TKO, and Strange 12 bolt with 3.73 gears. We're ready to rock. All that is left is fuel system!

And then I had to go buy a supercharged Corvette and got a taste for more power. Darn thing ruined me and I sold the ZZ4. Not the smartest thing I've done for sure. Some guy put the ZZ4 in a truck and had a lot of fun. And the rest of the parts went to Crewbies at this site.

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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then there was the supercharged 454 big block with B&M 177. At the time it was b-a-a-a-a-d! I got it placed in the engine bay, custom headers made, and put in a TH400 trans. Then late in 2001 I got the call from CAT and landed a dream job in Illinois. I went to Illinois and left the car at home in the garage.

Now keep in mind I've been living at home this whole time. That's the only reason why I had money to spend on cars. My life changed entirely going to Illinois and I became a poor boy in an apartment. Car hobbies are out of the picture and the car was 2000 miles out of reach anyway.





Last edited by QwkTrip on Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I soon got married and my wife had a lot of debt to pay down. Like the amount a nice house costs, but without the house. She's a good woman Wink Finally in 2007 I got in a position to buy a truck and trailer and collect my Firebird and haul it to Illinois.

I kept telling my parents, put the cat in the garage at night because you have mice. They would say, "No! We don't have mice!" Uh huh.... There were 4 nests. Dead mice in the back cubby hole. I had to throw away the rear seat bottoms because flies kept swarming it. Dried up urine on plastics. Fortunately, I was very lucky and the only thing they chewed was the carpet jute backing. Not a single bit of damage to anything else.

With the mice and a big block under the hood the license plate just had to be,




Last edited by QwkTrip on Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:43 pm; edited 3 times in total
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Firebird sat another 3 years in my garage when my wife finally told me we either need to get the car running or sell it. Okay, I'll get it running! Very Happy She was hoping I'd sell it. Laughing

I could never bring myself to cut the hood for the supercharger and I think Firebirds look stupid with a 4" cowl hood, so the big block had to be changed up. I knew LS engines were all the rage so I bought a 2001 Camaro SS just to see if an LS engine is my thing. Even stock, it was impressive. I knew an LS engine was a better mill for a street car than my big block. I sold the Camaro SS and made some money on it.

So I went on search for a donor car. I bought this 6.0L Camaro with heads, cam, intake and added the wheels and tires so I could drive it and work out the bugs before I pulled the engine. It had been a loooooong time since I had been in a fast car and this thing intimidated me at first. But I got used to it real quick and loved it. Problem is it was a perfectly good driver and I started liking it too much as my daily summer driver. And I was concerned that the city would hassle me if I had a disassembled car in the driveway. I sold the Camaro and lost about $1000 but it was worth every penny for a summer of pure fun driving that thing around!

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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enter the 1000 HP twin turbo engine. Very Happy On my search for LS swap parts I found a guy in St. Louis selling an entire 1000 HP twin turbo dropout from a '99 Camaro with 5000 miles for $10K. I picked it up because I wanted the Viper transmission and I figured I could sell everything else and even make money.

This was the real deal with receipts. An HKE built 398 stroker with twin turbos, eboost controller, tubular K-member, Jennings built T56, Ram dual disc clutch & flywheel, custom driveshaft made to mate to Viper trans output shaft, Moser 12 bolt complete with LS1 brakes, complete fuel system with dual Walbros, HP Tuner with laptop, full QA1 suspension, all tubular suspension bits. I got the engine home and started to wonder if it could go in my Firebird. I wasn't going to use the turbos because I don't have a death wish. The pistons would have to be changed out and after comparing costs it was pretty much same cost building a new 427 short block or putting new pistons in the 398. I chose the 427.

I sold the HKE 398 and when the guy got to my house we popped off a cylinder head and found #2 cylinder scored. Rolling Eyes I immediately dropped off $1000 and after some agonizing moments he took the engine home. Let's face it, it was damaged goods and nobody else was going to buy that engine. I called the guy two weeks later to check up and turns out the main bearings were hammered and he had Beck's Racing rebuilding the bottom end. I sent him another $1000 to cover most the expense. We're actually friends now and keep in touch with each other. Smile The engine is now in his car and feels very strong. He's shooting for 9 second quarters next spring. Another person greatly enjoying an engine I never used! Laughing

I did end up just breaking even on everything and got a free Viper trans, Ram clutch and flywheel, and driveline. I actually did something right for once! As for the guy that sold me the engine... ya, he wasn't going to let go of a single dime.

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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Greatest photograph ever ^


Also you should give that guy who bought the longblock an extra couple bucks just for having to scrape yellow masking tape off of everything. That's what the blue is for. Laughing
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally! I get my 427 LSx! Twisted Evil

... and it's damaged. No no no... What a nightmare forming! I got it home and unwrapped it to find the shipping company had rolled it all the way over on every side, and then used a fork lift to pick it up under the windage tray. Then they bolted it back on a new pallet, so whatever happened it destroyed the original pallet. I make a claim to the trucking company and they deny the claim. Jackasses. But it doesn't matter because the guy that built the engine bought insurance and he got the insurance money for me. Awesome guy! His user name is 'burgers' at LS1tech.com and he's one of the best people I've ever met. This guy drove to my house from Kansas and picked up the damaged engine at his own expense. Then he put together a brand new engine for me and met me in Missouri to transfer from truck to truck. No shipping companies this time!

427 part deuce home safe and sound!

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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interior rehab. I just let the car sit 3 years in my garage with all that mouse crap in it. I finally put on a mask and gloves and stripped out everything. Then everything got wiped down with Simple Green. I mean everything got wiped down! I flooded the interior, scrubbed, and vacuumed out all liquids, and towel and fan dried it. Every piece of plastic and metal got washed by hand. All ductwork scrubbed, all foam removed, all cloth interior gone except the door panels and seat belts that seemed to have no stain or smell.



The back carpet had wrong lay to the nap which made it look a different color.



Company sent me a new set of carpet, I laid it out in the car in the hot garage for about 2 weeks, then cut it, and put the interior back together. I installed a nice set of 4th gen Trans Am leather seats and the 4th gen console I bought a long time ago. Putting the interior back together was not a simple task. I pulled out the interior over a year earlier. Imagine trying to remember exactly how everything in the dash goes back together after that much time? Thanks, Aaron for the help! Very Happy Kind of amazing how nice everything stays when you don't use the car for a decade! Laughing Except for carpet, seats, and console, everything else is original. I actually have an even nicer set of 4th gen seats now. The ones in the picture were damaged during shipping and it really annoyed me. Finally scored some really low miles seats from a guy turning his car into a race car. Got the seat belts, too.

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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any LS swapper will have to either modify the stock K-member or put in a tubular K-member designed for LS swap. I was going to modify my K-member but I stumbled on an awesome deal on a new in the box BMR K-member with LSx mounts. I couldn't resist and bought it. I put it in and the stock A-arms don't mount up. Rolling Eyes So I spent $700 on a useless set of tubular A-arms to make my K-member work. I figured I'm only doing this once so whatever...



... until I try to install the springs. My Suspension Technique springs don't fit in the pocket! I call BMR and they say it was made to spec. I call Suspension Techniques and they say their spring are small enough to fit. After going back and forth a few times we concluded that the weight of my big block on those springs all these years had mushroomed the springs and caused them to be wider than original. Not a big deal in a stock A-arm. A big deal with a BMR A-arm having smaller pocket. I find a set of slightly used Moroso Trick Springs for dirt cheap and they fit. (they were a son of a gun to install though - long spring!) I went with the big block springs and intend to cut them as necessary. I didn't want the really soft small block springs because I don't feel the car will be controlled enough in an emergency maneuver. The stiffer big block springs ought to provide a balance between drag launch and civil handling. If not, then I'll get something else. We'll see.

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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Front brake upgrade. Seeing as I have a V6 car I have tiny brakes. I picked up Paul's (Twilightoptics) C4 C13" brake package and got a new set of SS rotors.

They look good, but...


... my wheel kind of moved out a lot. Confused Turns out these brakes are based on 1LE hubs so that adds an offset, and then the brake conversion add another offset the thickness of the rotors. My wheels are large on the front and I really had no margin for outward movement. I looked into different brakes but any big brake upgrade will move the wheel out the thickness of the rotor. Only exception I have found is Wilwood 11" and 12" kit that has zero offset from stock p/n 140-11012 and 140-11275, respectively. Problem is Wilwood parts can only be serviced by Wilwood. I can't go down to Autozone and get replacement parts. That's a no-go. So I'm in the market for new wheels, I guess. As long as I'm buying wheels I might as well keep these C4 brakes.

Anybody want a brand new set of ROH RT wheels? You'll never find another new set again because ROH doesn't import to US any longer.

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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3941
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could use belt driven accessories from F body or Corvette. The F body has an advantage that it packages easier, especially air conditioning. People tend to use Corvette accessories when they don't have air conditioning because it can be bought new from GM dealer. However, Corvette system sets further rearward and the A/C compressor blocks the motor mount pad used for F body. (I think Corvette uses the rearward motor mount location, but not sure.) Some people have done some motor mount fabrication to make corvette A/C work but I want bolt-on solutions.

Only problem with F body accessories is it is no longer in production, as in can't buy brackets from a GM dealer any more, and they are in hot demand so they go for stupid crazy high price. GTO A/C compressor is interchangeable so that can be bought new but nothing else. I was lucky enough to have a guy respond to my 'want ad' at LS1tech.com who had brand new F body accessories including water pump, but no A/C parts. He decided to go with Corvette setup after fitup. I bought the kit and then found a low miles used A/C system by word of mouth through a friend.

My iron 6.0L block does not come with one of the holes needed to mount the F body alternator bracket. You're supposed to center punch and use a base drill, but I just winged it by hand and did a good job. Don't try to be as lucky as me. You only get one shot at it and if you screw it up... you're screwed. I purchased a high quality flat bottom tap (M10 x 1.5) from McMaster-Carr and it cut the iron block like butter. I did not want to risk breaking a cheap tap inside the block. It has to go fairly deep.



Last edited by QwkTrip on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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