Cascade Crew

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: Clutch trouble

I've been having some problems with my 2001 camaro and the engagement of the clutch. Seems to be a issue going from 1-2 and from R into any forward gear. The stick will get stuck and will either not come out of gear, or go into gear.

Also when sitting @ a stop, even with the car in neutral if you keep your foot on the clutch you can literally feel the pressure bleed off until the pedal is on the floor.

clutch is the original AFAIK, and has about 110K miles on it. haven't felt any slippage at all.

Looks to me like the Slave cyl sits directly behind the TOB inside the bellhousing. I ran my fingers in there while someone pushed the pedal, but couldn't see or feel any fluid. Though it did make a weird "groaning" sound. Thinking it might need some fresh fluid.

https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NCF73265_0315030161&An=599001+102001+50012+2012008

that's the slave. Is the silver hex shaped thing on the top the bleeder valve?

Thanks in advance guys.

iansane · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:46 am Post subject:

RK82 · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject:

sounds like your clutch master cylinder is toast, pressure is just bleeding past the seals. could be the slave too, but I'd start at the master.

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject:

and here's a visual Aid, since the old link didn't work:

I'll try some fresh fluid and see where things are at.

chevymad · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject:

A slave has to leak to bleed off.. a master can leak internally and not show any fluid loss.. It just bypasses the cup.

aaron_sK · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject:

Could also be line expansion if they're plastic lines. Do the V6 cars have SS lines like the V8's?

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:14 am Post subject:

the line from the master to the slave is stainless. but the line from the reservoir to the master is plastic/rubber.

iansane · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:22 am Post subject:

aaron_sK · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:05 am Post subject:

So unless the SS lines totally crapped out, he's looking at either the master cyl. bleeding or the slave leaking.

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject:

well tried fresh fluid. No change.

pulled the master. No idea where it would be leaking from. Guess I'll replace it, and hope that does it. if not, I gotta pull the trans to get to the slave... #$%^&*

Twilightoptics · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject:

Internal leak.

I'd have found a spec and measured throw out bearing throw, before throwing parts at it.

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject:

new master, starting to build pressure, but things kind of feel the same. buddy from work is coming over to give a hand.

Paul, how does one measure "spec" without removing the transmission, to check TOB play? Not trying to be an A-hole, but I honestly have no idea.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject:

You should be able to put something in there through the bleeder hole/inspection cover, if there is one. I haven't been under your bellhousing/chassis so I can't tell you for sure. Usually there is an inspection plate. Even if you just file down a piece of wood or something to get the throw measured.

Not so much play, but distance traveled clutch pedal up vs down.

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject:

no inspection cover. just got a 3'' x 4" cut out in the bell, to see if the slave pushes the TOB, and even at that, I can hardly tell short of putting my finger in there...and that's a stupid idea.

I'm about to the point to surrender myself to just pulling the trans, replacing the slave, and doing the clutch at the same time, just so I don't have to dick with it for a while.

RK82 · Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject:

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject:

Spent the last two hours trying to get the trans out. Its not moving. Its binding up on the TOB and slave, and since now I have virtually Zero clutch pressure, having someone step on the clutch, doesn't do any good.

Tried jacking it up, wiggling the trans around, getting a pry bar between the trans and bellhousing and trying to lever it... its not gonna let go. spent 45 minutes trying to get it to seperate, gets about 3/8" of an inch and won't move... You put it in gear, and try to turn the output.... nothing. Even put the driveline yoke back in and but a beefy screwdriver b/t the driveline and U-joint. It wont turn no matter how hard I reef on it.... Rolling Eyes

anyone with ideas? I'm getting to the point of putting it back together and having it towed to a shop and letting them do all the labor.

This is starting to piss me off.

RK82 · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject:

Twilightoptics · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject:

The TB should be bolted to the transmission. Make sure those lines are disconnected and nothing else is hanging up externally. If everything else is free, pry it out as straight as you can. Means it's stuck on the disc, which also explains your engagement issue. That's why I like to see the travel first. Cause if the travel is okay, you've got another issue trans or clutch and would be where you are now. :O)

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject:

hmm. there's no disconnect point that I can see b/t the SS line and the slave, but my vision is limited, and I'm sure once the trans is away from the bellhousing, things will become much clearer. There is a roll pin that can be punched out to disconnect the master from the SS line. Hate to do it with a fresh master and new O-ring, but at this point a shop is gonna charge me money I don't really have.

Paul, from what I could tell there might have been a cast in part to the bellhousing where part of the slave passed through to the (mine's neon green) part of where the SS line connects. I kind of thought that was binding me up, but I can't see a way to disconnect the SS line from the slave, so I can remove the trans.

also the TOB looked like it had a couple little bends to keep the spring B/T the slave and the TOB retained. tried a screwdriver in there to see if I could pop the spring free, and maybe the trans would come loose, but couldn't get it.

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject:

re-read what you said...(again).

so potentially, I've got the trans free of the crank bearing, and now the disc has fallen out of alignment with the flywheel, and the disc itself is binding up b/t the flywheel and pressure plate?

I wish they would have just used a pivot ball, fork and put the clutch hydraulics on the outside. This would make life so much easier.....*sigh*