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Sad day for American Muscle
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: Sad day for American Muscle Reply with quote

So where I'm living now there is a sweet tight banked offramp. I've gotten pretty used to it and ran the Mazda around it at 45mph. No tire barking, just planted and smooth in and out, but hard on it.

Now the Mazda has 16x7 wheels with some medium road all season Falkens and is slightly lowered with KYBs on all corners.


Took the Camaro around a few times today. Best I could muster was about 39mph, and the tires were giving up traction. I'm way more versed in this car, it has Goodyear F1 tires, and tons of suspension goodies kyb front/koni yellow rear.

Both speedos are as dead on as can be for 80's cars.

This has sadened me.

Crying or Very sad

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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5476


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably weight. Still sad.

While my formy stays fairly flat and has good grip, I'm not nearly as confident in it as I am in my truck at times. Now with the new suspension under the 74, it feels really good and balanced too. The 87 just kinda feels rough, stiff, and sometimes slippery. It never has lost it for me though, just doesnt make me feel confident in it. Maybe like its too hard to feel where the edge is.

Now Mikes car... I've been plastered to the pass window going around a ramp with it.

But lets look at it the other way... Hurray for the mazda! You got one car that must be really sweet handling if its beating the maro.
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townaj
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Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 326
Location: San Antone, TX


PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you know what that means....more goodies are in order for the Camaro!!!

But that does kinda suck....
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

townaj wrote:
Well you know what that means....more goodies are in order for the Camaro!!!

But that does kinda suck....


Only other goodies I can really do are Koni's in the front, and some wider wheels/tires....

but seriously.... Stiffer springs, Tubular Torque Arm, Spherical Adjustable Control Arms, Spherical Adjustable Pan Hard, IROC Sway Bars, Battery Relocation, Adjustable Koni's in the rear...

And hardly anything to the Mazda. So said.

It shouldn't just be a matter of weight, yes there is less inertia, but there's a whole lot more on the Camaro to overcome that 1500lbs.

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RSFreak
The other "John"


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2946
Location: Renton

1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The previous owner of my T/A said it cornered better than his Porshe 911. Shocked Wink

His actual words were, "I can take a corner at speed with more confidence in the Trans Am."

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iansane
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Bothell

1991 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is this corner? I'll beat that Mazda! Laughing
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iansane wrote:
Where is this corner? I'll beat that Mazda! Laughing


Laughing so hard it hurts Shouldn't be that far South from you, Ian.

BTW, if you guys want to quit playing around, and see some real taxpayer funded, adrenaline inducing, tire-raping corkscrews, come down to Tacoma and run "The Gulch". Wink
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townaj
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Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 326
Location: San Antone, TX


PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know how you can get through it faster with the Camaro....just get a little sideways Twisted Evil. But don't get too Fast and Furious on us... In all seriousness though...thats a lot of upgrades.
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaron_sK wrote:
iansane wrote:
Where is this corner? I'll beat that Mazda! Laughing


Laughing so hard it hurts Shouldn't be that far South from you, Ian.

BTW, if you guys want to quit playing around, and see some real taxpayer funded, adrenaline inducing, tire-raping corkscrews, come down to Tacoma and run "The Gulch". Wink


It's just down the street! DO tell...

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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The state likes to call it the "I-5 / 705 / Hwy 7 interchange" but all we ever knew it as was the gulch

I grew up right up the hill from there. You walk a block from my parents house, look down the cliff, and that's it. We ran all kinds of cars through it. Great place to test stuff out.

From I-5 Northbound in Tacoma, follow the signs for Hwy 7, till you see a sign for 38th St East. Take that but don't merge into traffic, just get back on the freeway and follow the signs for I-5 South. The North to North run is pretty good too.

Staters sit under and/or on top of the 38th St. overpass looking for this type of BS, so watch out for that. I got nicked up there for what he wrote down as 60. Wink
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Red Bird
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Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 195
Location: Yakima

1991 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An RX7 is 1000lbs lighter, so being able to keep up in the corners is going to be tough for sure. The RX7 has much better weight distribution. but when those turns straighten out, you can always cruise right around the RX7 and on the straights and wave bye bye. I bet with bigger/wider wheels/tires you could match the RX7's speed even if you had the same kind of tire on both. It would be a lot more white knuckle in the F-body for sure:)
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iansane
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Bothell

1991 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaron_sK wrote:
The state likes to call it the "I-5 / 705 / Hwy 7 interchange" but all we ever knew it as was the gulch


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

A girlie friend of mine grew up off Mckinley/56th and I just took that 38th-to-I5 route the other day dropping some stuff off! Mucho fun! (when there aren't any cops.) I still can't believe hwy7 having four lanes wide both directions for only a mile or so.
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iansane
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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Location: Bothell

1991 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot shorter but much tighter; this
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was a kid my Grandpa told me that the reason for all of that was that back when the federal government built I-5, the state and Tacoma businesses had them convinced that everybody and their uncle would want to get off of I-5, drive through Tacoma via Pacific Ave. (Hwy 7) and out to Mount Ranier. The feds thought that was a great idea, so they spent a boatload of money digging out the gulch and building a huge interchange via 38th st., then widening and improving Hwy 7 out past Roy.

Of course then everybody realized that Pac Ave is crowded, and has a billion stoplights, so they just took a better, quicker, less surface-street route, and now we get to race on whats left. Razz
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Richster
Magic Fingers


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 879
Location: The Black-Hole

1983 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't feel bad dude!
My wifes speed-3 freaking hauls ass and handles like a dream!
I call it the go-cart when my big butt is driving...but that thing is fast as heck and comfy...Love those corners!
Remember dyno? I did a vid of your mazda...never ending rpms!

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Twilightoptics
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Bird wrote:
An RX7 is 1000lbs lighter, so being able to keep up in the corners is going to be tough for sure. The RX7 has much better weight distribution. but when those turns straighten out, you can always cruise right around the RX7 and on the straights and wave bye bye. I bet with bigger/wider wheels/tires you could match the RX7's speed even if you had the same kind of tire on both. It would be a lot more white knuckle in the F-body for sure:)


Closer to 1500lbs lighter. :O)

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Alphius
Peanut


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound

1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The handling and acceleration of the car were noted to be of a high caliber for its day. This generation RX-7 had "live axle" 4-link rear suspension with Watt's linkage, a 50/50 weight ratio, and weighed under 2500 lb (1100 kg). It was the lightest generation of RX-7 ever produced. 12A-powered models accelerated from 0–60 mph in 9.2 s, and turned 0.779g (7.64 m/s²) laterally on a skidpad.


Quote:
A true handler, the IROC-Z came with special front struts, springs and jounce bumpers, Delco-Bilstein rear shocks, special rear springs, anti-roll bar, higher effort steering, increased caster wheel alignment, front frame rail reinforcement, 16 x 8-inch aluminum wheels, Goodyear Eagle P245/50VR16 tires and special graphics. The entire package resulted in a Camaro that could pull 0.92 Gs on the skid pad and seven second 0-to-60 mph times in stock trim.


Hmm. I know it's just magazine numbers, and the RX7 as-tested is on stock skinnies. .78G cornering force.

My Camaro has most of the WS6 stuff and some extra chassis bracing so it's around the IROC number. I've had Dynolicious in my car report a .93G cornering force, and it still felt composed and under control. That is also anecdotal evidence, but it's still a very good number.

RX7 weight=2200
My '84 Z28=3050
Earlier thirdgen cars are a lot lighter, and I have some weight reduction. I'm only 850 heavier than the lightest stock RX7.


That RX7 must really like bigger tires. I haven't driven a 1G RX7, but I know my Camaro corners way better and more neutrally than any other car I've driven hard including many Japanese import performance vehicles. If the 1G RX7 is that much better, I feel like I need to drive one now. Very Happy
Definitely need to combine the best of both worlds though and do an LSx powered RX7 build, which is something I've had in my head for a while as a future project. Twisted Evil

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redlava
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Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 448
Location: Bremerton

1986 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't see a wonder bar or a strut tower brace in your list of mods. I always thought those were suppose to be really beneficial to handling.
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Alphius
Peanut


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound

1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaron_sK wrote:
if you guys want to quit playing around, and see some real taxpayer funded, adrenaline inducing, tire-raping corkscrews, come down to Tacoma and run "The Gulch".


Where do I sign up? I want to run that.

[excuses]
But my clutch is bad and I'm not replacing it until after I move cause money and work and I'm changing jobs and leaving town and my Camaro needs what's left of the clutch to drive to my new place and and and...
[/excuses]

Laughing We can go do it later this summer Aaron. We'll invite Ian too.

2-hour roadtrip from Chehalis

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91RSVert
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 2736
Location: AR

1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that Gulch, are you refuring to it being long strait, and between walls, or the full loops from 7 to 5??


Here in little rock, we have a road I-630 going thru town, strait, and part of it is trenched down for "road noise". Very easy to hit 100 and not know it. We also have a nice large well banked loop from I630 to I30East that I have passed MANY of cars taking the inside lane and putting the hammer down. Another is Hwy10 to I30e but its fairly rough. 40E to 167/67 north is banked WAY wrong and any time it rains we have some go in the ditch.

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