Cascade Crew

alloy · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: Rear brake delema

As you know I've got the 9" and just picked up an extra set of LS1's rears today to put on it. I also have the superlite II's I got off the fireturd.

In looking at the superlite pads it looks like they will have almost twice the contact area on the rotor and way more piston area. These are large 4 piston calipers and looks like a much smaller caliper is usually used on the back. But.........I am way under braked on the back now and was looking to raise the rear pressure to compensate for this. I'm planning on putting an adj. prop valve on the back line also.

I've worked out mounting the LS1's on the 9"already and could make a bolt on bracket to mount the superlites and be the needed spacer for the backing plates. The way I have it worked I could actually mount the stock calipers and the siperlites both on the rear. It's just that easy really. Guess if the suplerlites didn't work I could easily bolt the stockers on.

So..........go with the bigger calipers or stay with the stock LS1's. Am wanting opinions and feedback on this. I'm still in the decision making process right now. Can't do much right now anyway.......am still kinda sore.

Dewey316 · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:41 am Post subject:

how much play do you get in the axle flanges with the 9" ?? The thing I would be worried about would be pad-knock back on the superlights, if you have any side/side axle movement.

On the 9" it should be MUCH better than say a stock c-clip style rear, but would be something I would think about.

I would thinking that you don't get much gain from that huge caliper. Since you end up limiting the hydrolic pressure to the bakes anyway, it is not like you are gaining any clamping form, or needing to worry about fade resistance.

But, hey, you already have them, always worth a shot. Paul is using the old C4 setup for his rear brakes now, you can ask him how using a caliper designed for the front is working for him.

alloy · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:03 am Post subject:

There is NO side axle movement in the axles. The bearings are pressed onto the axle and are held into the housing with a 1/4" steel flange with about .020 preload clamping on the bearing holding it in the housing. Only way there would be any movement in the axle would be in the case of a bearing failure.

I'd planned on gutting the stock prop valve and adding the adj. prop valve to the rears with the stock setup to try and get more pressure to the rears, just concerned that these calipers may be overkill and no way to dial them down to get the balance I want. So much more pad and piston area with the superlites than the stockers. I'm not sure if there is a way to calculate this or not.

You mentioned I wont get any more clamping from the superlites. With the increased caliper piston area what is your opinion based on concerning this?

iansane · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject:

aaron_sK · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject:

alloy · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:10 pm Post subject:

Dewey316 · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject:

alloy · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject:

I understand what Ian is saying, but I'm dissapointed in the LS1's now with very good pads, and fade isn't a problem at all with my setup. Not being able to balance the rears to the fronts is what I'd like to cure. But after saying that I've not upped the rear pressure yet by modding the prop valve.

In talking with JERRYWHO on TGO he calculated he needed an additional 500 psi of rear pressure to make the rear LS's almost equal to the 13" fronts. We have the identical setups for brakes. 500 psi is a lot to try and gain.

I don't want to dial the fronts down, I'd like to raise the rear force to make them more equal to the fronts. Same problem I was working on before, but now I have another option to try.

Dewey316 · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject:

I would do away with the prop valve completely. Just run the lines straight out of the master, and put your valve on the rear brakes. Then you have full pressure to both front and rear, and can dial in your rear to whatever you need.

Not that I am saying the superlights will be bad (I would never want anyone ot think that bigger isn't better!), I am just having hard time seeing how you can be that short of rear braking with the LS1 setup.

--John

Alphius · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject:

alloy · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject:

Alphius · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:52 pm Post subject:

alloy · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject:

alloy · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject:

Got my bracket designed and found a guy on CL that will plasma cut them out for $25. That's a steal. I have to supply material, but I was expecting at least $75 minimum for this. If you need parts cut like this I'll post a link to him.

He has 4ft x 8ft capacity.

Now need to start looking for someone to sand blast the rear to get rid if that hideous, god awful, fugly, ugly RED that someone painted the rear with. How could anyone in their right mind ever paint car parts red like that Ewwwww

alloy · Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject:

Well some more progress. Picked up a 3.70 center section for $50. Need to swap my 31 spline posi in it now. Also got the backing plate holes filled and re drilled and mounted to the housing.

"Finally" found the correct axle seals. Took 2 days and looking through many different seal catalogs to find them. They were in stock at schuck's but not listed as a seal for any ford rear that I could find. Was a mopar seal they said Shocked

Also got some new axle bearings. Picked up a conversion u-joint and need to see if it fits now.

Now waiting for my caliper brackets. Hopefully next week some time. And need to get the welding done. I may have a guy locally that can do it.

So...some progress, it's slow but progress none the less.

iansane · Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject:

Good to hear progress! It'll be cool seeing a 9 with LS1s on it. Smile

alloy · Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject:

Well I'm planning on putting the superlites on it, but using the stock LS1 drum parking brake setup. All it would take to put the LS1 calipers on is to just bolt them on after I get the spacer plate/caliper brackets (doubles as both). Heck the way I'm setting it up I could put both sets of calipers on. If the superlites don't work out I can just use the LS1's. Just unbolt the superlites and bolt on the LS1's.

I'm just so surprised that everyone I've talked to even Currie says this can't be done with the small bearing 31 spine axles. Another guy married explorer drum brake setup to the LS1 disks, and then did extensive welding/fabricating on the brackets to get the calipers on. This was just so simple, and having a second set of LS1 brakes made it much easier instead of tearing my car apart to do this.

alloy · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:23 am Post subject:

Got my caliper brackets yesterday. The guy did a great job for $25 including material. I designed them and emailed him the file. Easy as can be. He is a little ways out......Beavercreek but it's an easy drive.

Started drilling my axles for the new studs, but one of them is hard...............very damned hard. Glad I know how to sharpen drill bits.

If anyone needs front caliper brackets this guy is a good cheap alternative. Great work and fast turn around time. The bracket designs are online for most front brake conversions.

iansane · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject:

Mind passing on his info? I'm hankering for some new brakes. Very Happy

alloy · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject:

Here ya go. Tell him Dan referred you. I told him I have buddies that might need some parts.

http://www.precisioncnc.info/index.html