Cascade Crew

Alphius · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: T56 swap discussion

I'm going to start looking out for deals and putting together a T56 swap for my Camaro. I'm already T5, just looking for that extra gear and extra strength.

Option 1: LT1 style T56
I've researched this the most, and I have a pretty good handle on what I would need for this swap.

LT1 T56 - Slightly beefed up. See below.
Crossmember - Either stock style transmission mounted torque arm or something like this: http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/camarofirebirdspohn82-92adjustabletorquearm-t-56transmission93-97f-body.aspx
T56 Bellhousing
T56 Shifter
2 Piece RMS Flywheel - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-700107?part=CTF-700107&autoview=sku
T56 Master/Slave Cylinder? Do I need both or just the slave?
T56 Clutch Disc/Pressure Plate:

As far as clutch goes, see this: http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520404
So I'm thinking go for the Autozone LT4 kit to get the good PP, then buy just a disc from someone. So far the Centerforce DFX looks decent, but I really don't know. Could use suggestions.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-23381039/

I need suggestions on beefing up the T56 a bit so I don't have to do things twice. I've heard steel 3-4 shift forks and billet 3-4 keys? Apparently those are a big issue. Do I need to worry about 1-2 or 5-6? I'm not going to be hamfisting the tranny, I know how to drive well.

Option 2: LS1 style T56
I don't know much about this option. Aaron told me in another thread that I should look into the LS1 T56 instead of the dumb LT1 clutch situation. What's involved in this swap that's different than the LT1 swap? I've heard I can use a stock SBC flywheel and clutch, which could potentially save me some money, but aren't there mods to the tranny that have to be done?

I'm all set on wiring/eliminating the reverse lockout and CAGS. No problems there. I guess I'm all set as long as I get this mechanical stuff situated first. Oh ya, keep an eye out for good deals for me. Laughing

I look forward to any help and advice I receive.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:22 am Post subject:

LS1 T56

You need:
-McLeod 8617 Pilot Bushing $39 Summitracing
-McLeod Adapter Plate (forget the number. I've posted it 100 times between here and TGO)....... MCL-8-207 $252 Summitracing
-Crossmember? I don't know, I built my own.
-Torque arm? I don't know, I relocated the arm to the crossmember when I built it. Theoretically a spohn cross member with relocation should get you close.
-Shifter. Comes up through the hole. I build a little adapter to move the stick to where I wanted it. 4 holes on a piece of 3/8Plate and some spacers.

You retain your stock T5 bellhousing/clutch assembly. So clutches are cheaper, they work better, and no mods or switching hydraulics..... vs the LT1. Saves you a ton of money since you're already T5... Don't have to buy flywheel, expensive clutch, different hydraulics, etc.

LT1 is crap.

Beefing the T56:
Steel 3-4 Shift Fork
Bronze shift fork pads for 1-2/3-4
I can't remember which solid keys I got or didn't. I remember BoB and Hanlon talking me out of spending the $ on one of them.

You can do things like a longer tail bushing but I had trouble finding one so I ditched it.

Biggest thing is the Steel shift fork, and the bronze pads IMHO. And relocating the torque arm off the trans. You need a special long gear puller to remove 5-6 Gear to gain access to the rest of the trans to remove these things. Plus while you're in there You'll want to do synchros, bearings, seals.

My shop charges $350 labor plus parts. We can get the parts too if you need. Tackling it yourself isn't a big deal if you have that puller and access to a Press.

Alphius · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:41 am Post subject:

You made me like the LS1 option. I'm gonna try to do that.

Don't know if I want to build my own X-member or just go for the easy way and buy one.

I'm very excited. It's gonna be easier and cheaper than I thought!

305 302eater · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:07 pm Post subject:

I thought you had to shorten the drive line a bit on the ls1 t56 swap.

alloy · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject:

You do have to shorten the drive line for the LS1 style trans. And you will have to get a dakota digital conversion box to run your speedo correctly, or I read you can reprogram your chip so that the speedo reads correctly.

You should also consider billet 3-4 syncro keys. The most common failure in these trannys is the 3-4 keys breaking and jamming the trans between gears, or in gear. They aren't that expensive either. Cheap insurance.

You can up the torque handling capability of these trannys by simply preloading the bearings about .0015. Everyone on TGO says these are noisy tranny's. I beg to differ. Mine is less noisy than my T5 ever was. And you can ask Mike how nice my old T5 is. I built both of them myself. Seems everyone doesn't check and shim the rear counter shaft. It takes a special tool to do that, but you can easily make one. I made mine and it worked perfectly.

If you decide to build the trans yourself, don't be afraid of it. They are no harder than putting a cam in. You will need a mic to measure the shims, and a dial indicator and mag base to set play. Also you will have to have at least one gear pressed off and back on. Not a big deal for most any shop to do that for you.

Schultzy89GTA · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject:

aaron_sK · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject:

alloy · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject:

I tend to think that most on TGO take the easy way out, then post to complain about something they were warned about ahead of time. You can lead a horse to water, but most time you can't make dumb people listen to the right way of doing things.

If he needs a mechanical drive speedo let me know. I do that mod to T56's.

305 302eater · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject:

[quote="alloy"]You do have to shorten the drive line for the LS1 style trans.

I thought so. Thats the reason why I went lt1 style t56 when I did my swaps.

aaron_sK · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject:

Getting a driveshaft modified and balanced is less than the difference in price between the T-5 and LT1 clutches.

Trust me, I did the LT1 swap back when (afiak) McLeod didn't make that adapter, and it was the only swap game in town. Just trying to get the slave cylinder spacer was a headache.

BTW, Dan and Paul, how much does the shaft have to be shortened? IIRC the LS1 shaft I had in the IROC was a little shorter than the stocker steel one out of the box.

305 302eater · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject:

aaron_sK · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject:

True, if your going from a 700 in a car with a 1 piece RMS, the cost is similar. However come clutch change time, it'll bite you in the ass.

You can have steel driveshafts done up at FleetPride in Tacoma for around $220-250. Takes like three hours.

If you get the slave spacer with your bellhousing or hydros, it works perfect. Trying to find one if you don't have it is what sucks.

alloy · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject:

If you need a slave cylinder spacer for an LT1 style trans swap , let me know. I have a couple of them.

iansane · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject:

aaron_sK · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:06 am Post subject:

Heh. Northwest driveline wanted $300 to lengthen the rear shaft on the Blazer a couple of inches for the NP205. FleetPride wanted $225.

chevymad · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:19 am Post subject:

Was less then a hundred a few years ago to have a shaft shortened and balanced here in longview. Shortening is fairly easy, lengthening.. well they don't make a driveline stretcher.

iansane · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:38 am Post subject:

Alphius · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:29 am Post subject:

alloy · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:44 am Post subject:

If you look at an LT1 bell housing you will see a spacer that goes on before the slave cylinder. It is part of the stock setup. The Lt1 setup is virtually a bolt in using the 4th gen hydraulics. The spacer is there because you have to slip the release fork onto the throw out bearing after you install the trans. This removable "spacer" gives you access to do this. People tend to "misplace" these when selling T56 setups and then your screwed without the spacer. I got real lucky a couple of years ago and picked up two spare spacers from GM before they were discontinued.

If you go with an LT1 style setup, you may want to consider a set of 4th gen pedals. Or like I did modify the clutch master cylinder push rod to make it adjustable. If you don't you have an abnormally high clutch release point. I have a set of 4th gen pedals I picked up that I didn't use if you go the LT1 route.

I don't totally agree with everyone about the LT1 clutch. There were millions of 4th gens produced with that clutch and they all seem to do pretty well with them. I don't have big power yet, but hopefully shortly I'll have another 100 or so more ponies and I'll see just how good the clutch is I guess. For now on the street I see no difference between the conventional push clutch and my pull type LT1 setup.

I sent you a PM on the speedo cable drive mod.

Edit: Found these pics on TGO. Shows how the spacer setup works.

305 302eater · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:17 am Post subject:

Ya I know what he's talking about with the slave spacer. I just never thought of it being called that.