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12 Second Club - New Member!
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Schultzy89GTA
M.R.A. (11sec Club)


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 4417
Location: Gresham, OR

1989 Pontiac GTA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: 12 Second Club - New Member! Reply with quote

Well still not optimal but definitely an improvement...

First run, 12.925 @ 109.58, 1.970 60
2nd 12.729 @ 109.39, 1.793 60
3rd 12.971 @ 109.56, 1.892 60

Also tried the juice a few times...

4th run 12.62 @ 120.54, 1.710 60
5th run 12.417 @ 118.53, 1.812 60

No 11's this night but running with the drag radials was way cool. If anyone is interested in excuses I have a bunch of them Very Happy

-Schultzy

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Red Sled: 89 GTA, 383, TKO, N2O

12.73 @ 109.39, 1.793 60 \ 11.794 @ 121.16, 1.62 60 (old combo)
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82camaro383
12sec Club


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 117
Location: Pullman/Vancouver, WA

1985 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the 12 second club!
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85 Z28, 383 Stroker, TH350 tranny, Richmond 4.10 gears, dual exhaust
Fastest Time: 12.7sec @ 107mph
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83Z28BlackBetty
Bam-Ba-Lam


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 2083
Location: Aloha

1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WAHOO!!!
congrats, so how deep do you want to go now?
~JAKE

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1983 Z-28 5.7 LT1, T56, Headman headers, BW 9 Bolt Posi Disc, WS6 suspension
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5476


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it there were no 9bolt explosions anyway. Just noticed the 120mph.... thats flying. 60s are better but must still be having traction issues even with tires??
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only noticed him spin once... and that was on one of the n20 runs.


Might need to launch at a little higher rpm yet. Not sure where his peak torque was. I did notice that a couple times by the time he was staged, he didn't have time to get a true rpm... it was launch as the rpm was reving up.
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5476


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somethings definately slipping somewhere. 120mph shows he could be running low 11's.. so definatly got the horsepower.. 1 second to find somewhere.. Maybe his shifting?? Razz

You race too Paul? 13.01@ 107 right?? Wink
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82camaro383
12sec Club


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 117
Location: Pullman/Vancouver, WA

1985 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a 12.7@106mph and the car was hoking up. What was your 60' times.
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85 Z28, 383 Stroker, TH350 tranny, Richmond 4.10 gears, dual exhaust
Fastest Time: 12.7sec @ 107mph
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Dewey316
The Lama


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 7295
Location: Bringing the tech

1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You dork. You said you weren't going, so I didn't go to the track.
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Schultzy89GTA
M.R.A. (11sec Club)


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 4417
Location: Gresham, OR

1989 Pontiac GTA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry John. It was a crazy day of running around and I forgot to call.

82Camaro383 - 60' times are in my original post. The 60' for my 12.7 was 1.793.

I have a lot to go in my launch technique but at least with the DR's it wasn't just pure spin like the street tires. I also think that Brandon is right (duh) about my clutch. I think I need to adjust the pivot ball. It doesn't release until almost all the way to the floor. On the 120MPH run I was trying to get into 2nd for what seemed like an eternity, finally got it in there and then took off. Don't know what went wrong on the 118 MPH run, I sure 'felt' like a rock star lol! I have a few other things that I need to figure out as well but if I post them all it just looks like excuses. We'll get there.

As far as new goal, the only drag race goal I have ever had is to run an 11 sec 1/4 mile E.T. The car is not set up for drag racing. I'm still seeking the goal but it appears within reach. I was pleased to finally break through the 13 sec curse.

-Schultzy
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Nathan J
Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 161
Location: spokane

1986 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

your 60ft is what is killing you, you have the mph to run the number, a normal number is ever tenth you take off the 60ft will give you 3 tenths or more overall, what does your 330ft and 660ft look like? looks like your making alot up in the top end, maybe try to get some more rpms up at launch if the tires will hold. maybe also unhook your front sway bar, that should help a little also in throwing some more weight back.
Nathan

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86 firebird
383sbc
th350 t brake
4th gen rear soon 9in ford rear
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathan J wrote:
your 60ft is what is killing you, you have the mph to run the number, a normal number is ever tenth you take off the 60ft will give you 3 tenths or more overall,



I don't agree with that.

I've heard people say at most 2 tenths for every one tenth off the 60. In my experiance and looking back at all my runs over the past 6 years.... 1 tenth off the 60 yeilds 1 tenth off the 1/4. This is with an automatic and very consistant runs.

Just MHO.
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Nathan J
Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 161
Location: spokane

1986 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

every car is differs, most of this i have seen from friends cars in deep 10s and 9s, where 60 ft are not 1.8 and up they where going from 1.6 to 1.4 and so on. Its a weird thing, also if you dead hook out of the hole you normally will see a better time but slower mph, but if you spin you will see a higher mph and slower time. but that is only from a hand full of cars. anyway though, if his car is a auto have you ever figured out the conv slip? because unless you are just spinning hard out of the whole your 60 ft should be less, so look at your converter. but then again if its not a pure drag car then getting a converter that is tighter might not be what you want. i spent almost 800 on my converter, to get it tight for nitrous use. but its a drag car so anyway hehe. also what kind of shot where you spraying? just wondering.
Nathan

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86 firebird
383sbc
th350 t brake
4th gen rear soon 9in ford rear
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikes car is a 5 speed. I never claimed that Mike's 1.8 60 time could ever yeild a 10 second run.

I know the 9's and 10's run sub 1.4 60s. They also launch at peak torque, have significantly higher torque/power levels, AND are gear propperly for the track. And usually lighter.

Running a stick, being a non experianced drag racer, Launching a hair low on rpm, AND not running an ideal gear setup (from first gear not being ideal, to the rear gears not being steep enough) I think a 1.7 60 is fine. If your gears are too tall, you wont get the 60 foot lower without significantly more torque to move the 3850lb sled.

I was refering to my runs in 2 different camars, an s10, and a C10... all different motors, weights, all with different automatic transmissions. 65 runs in all with autos. My point in pointing out the auto, is that it's more consistant and you should see that 60ft at the end of the track more clearly.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twilightoptics wrote:
In my experiance and looking back at all my runs over the past 6 years.... 1 tenth off the 60 yeilds 1 tenth off the 1/4. This is with an automatic and very consistant runs.


Running quicker out of the hole will give you even quicker yet 1/4 mile times. It's not just the difference in '60 foot times. The reason lies in the fact that you are accelerating from different initial velocities through different distances down the track.

It's been a heck of a long time since I've done any calcs like this so correct me if I'm wrong....

Let's say you have two cars, A and B, with identical ability to accelerate at a constant acceleration of 20 ft/sec-sec. Both cars leave the line at the same time. Car A leaves with no slip and car B leaves with some slip and takes 3.000 seconds to go the first '60 feet. Car A gets to accelerate with no slip for the entire 1320 ft of the track. The times for car A are,

t = sqrt (2*x / a)

60 foot mark ---> t = sqrt [2*(60) / (20)] = 2.449 sec
1320 foot mark ---> t = 11.489 sec

Car B takes 3 seconds to travel the first 60 feet. Assuming constant acceleration the speed of car B at the 60 foot mark is,

x = 1/2*(a)*(t)^2
a = 2*(60) / (3*3)
a = 13.333 ft/sec-sec

v = a*t
v = (13.333)*(3)
v = 40 ft/sec

Once car B stops slipping at the 60 foot mark it also accelerates at the same rate as car A (20 ft/sec-sec). However, car B does this for only the last 1260 feet of the track.

x0 = 60 feet
v0 = 40 ft/sec
x = x0 + v0*t + 1/2*a*t^2

1320 = 60 + 40*t + 1/2*(20)*t^2
t = 9.402

So the times for car B are,

60 foot mark ---> t = 3.000 sec
1320 foot mark ---> t = 3.000 + 9.402 = 12.402 sec

And the lead car A has at each point is,

60 foot ------> lead = (3.000) - (2.449) = 0.551 sec
1320 foot ---> lead = (12.402) - (11.489) = 0.913 sec

A half second lead at the 60 foot mark resulted in nearly a full second lead at the 1/4 mile.
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="QwkTrip]
A half second lead at the 60 foot mark resulted in nearly a full second lead at the 1/4 mile.[/quote]

[quote="Twilightoptics]I've heard people say at most 2 tenths for every one tenth off the 60. In my experiance and looking back at all my runs over the past 6 years.... 1 tenth off the 60 yeilds 1 tenth off the 1/4. This is with an automatic and very consistant runs. [/quote]


2 tenths for every 1 tenth.

That would be a 2:1 ratio. Which is what you concluded in your ... well obnoxious math post. I was only pointing out that there are more variable involved, and shared my experiances. I don't think it's nice to hipe something up without backing it up.

Engines don't read books... neither do drag strips. There are basic fundamental physics involved, but never will math be recreated in real life on a drag strip.

Again... all just my humble opinion. If I ran I 1.7 60ft, I wouldn't expect 9 tenths to come off my original 2.0 60ft. Which was my previous point.
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Jess
Administrator


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 429
Location: Mount Vernon, WA

1988 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Job Mike Thumbs up
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'88 Formula
'95 Trans Am - Sold
'88 GTA - Sold
'89 Firebird V6 - Sold
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rjmcgee
The Hammer


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 2328



PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awsome Mike!

Congrats on the runs. Smile
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Schultzy89GTA
M.R.A. (11sec Club)


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 4417
Location: Gresham, OR

1989 Pontiac GTA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys.

-Schultzy
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90droptoproc
Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 490


1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

finally, way to go!!
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's obnoxious to you is a proof to me. Just a different way of thinking I suppose. If you don't relate to math or physics that's fine.
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