Cascade Crew

[scott in wa.]

In have been having lots of problems getting the car to run,
Switched back to the stock prom, (ran before) unhooked the battery for a while, and nothing.

I pulled out #1 plug it looks wet.,
Cranked over engine to check spark at plug and its jumping all over, is not sparking at the center, its all over but there.
This is the second set I have put in and I haven't even driven the car.
(just up and down the street)

What the heck is going on?
Brand new plugs got about 30 minutes engine run time on them.
Brand new MSD cap and rotor as well, just installed zero hours
New ignition box that goes on the back of distributor as well, I have three of these and the all tested good.
New coil as well, maybe 30 minutes on this as well

Iam at a loss.


how could these plugs be shot already.??

They are Autolite 24s, stock plugs.

Iam pulling my wet hair out in the rain..

scott

[Xophertony]

is it bad that they don't spark in the center? they are still sparking right? i am sorry if this is a dumb question, i normally only deal with delco stock plugs. only two prongs only one place to spark...

have you checked your fuel pressure? i think autozone rents a guage you can hook up to your schrader(sp?) valve. i own one so i have never needed it, but i believe they do.

[scott in wa.]

I have a gage mounted on fuel rail
24lb injectors, 43 psi
started last week, but not even fireing now.
even with starter fluid down the front.

Just wondering why, these pluds go bad so soon.
what could it be?

[Xophertony]

do the plugs have any visable change in appearence from when they came out of the box or do they still appear "new". the haynes/chiltons manuals always have this "guide" on the back to what is wrong with your plugs, but it is kind of a long term damage kind of thing... i don't know if that will help ya out at all....

[scott in wa.]

Ya they are dark,
I know its running a bit rich.
Even if I pray starting fluid down the throttle body it still will not fire.

Bought a set of ngk platinum
We will wee how they work.
Maybe its something else, maybe bad distributor or ECM???

[Sellmanb]

If you are fouling out plugs, then starting fluid wont help

If the car runs (even if like poop) with new plugs in it, then you know that you need to change your PROM to run leaner, much leaner.

You said that you have spark, so I'm just guessing it's an overly rich condition caused by the modifications (like bigger injectors and not having the prom quite right yet).


If you have a propane torch, you can make the plugs work again, so you dont have to go out and buy new plugs every 30 minutes lol.

Good luck!

[scott in wa.]

Ya,
Its funny I can't even get it to pop.
There is spark, but no poping, maybe one cylinder poping once in a while.

thanks
scott

[chevymad]

Ya. it just sounds like your tune is just waaay too rich. Once the plugs are wet they'll just short out. Starting fluid does no good. You can dry them off with a propane torch and reuse them. This is a new motor right? If so you don't want to play around too long with it dumping that much fuel down it. You'll fuel wash the cylinder walls and end up having to put rings in it again.

Is this with one of the prom's paul sent you?

[Sellmanb]

3 things to make a car start.

Spark (you have)
Air/Fuel (must atleasthave fuel lol)
Compression. (you've one a compression test on this motor, right?)


Make sure you are getting everything at the proper time, and in the right quantity. (Try moving the distributor around to get it started).

Also, if you have been cranking for a while, your battery probably needs recharged.


Simple things to think about atleast

[scott in wa.]

yep, new motor
Trying stock prom.
changed plugs,
charged battery
It started.
Drove it around the block, runs OK.
Now running the 87 gta prom again.

A while back I had to replace the starter, for some reason when I cranked it over I blew off the aluminum cone on the front of the starter , busted in two.

Now a new starter, but it doesn't want to turn the motor over.
bendex just spins, when it hooks up, It doesn't have enough power to turn the engine over.

So since its dark, Iam done till tomorrow.
Maybe a new starter?
thanks
scott

[BigDaddyVu]

Its sounds like you have a leak on one of your injectors or fuel rail or fuel regulator. I had that problem my mechanic says GM injectors weren't that great the tend to leak when there bad. How did you set the timing?

[scott in wa.]

Set the timing with a gun, with the wire unplugged
Just got new Bosch injectors,
I notice that My pressure bleeds off on the fuel rail quickly. when I turn key off.
I have a holley afpr and they do bleed off, Iam just not sure how fast is bad.
But It holds plenty of pressure with the engine running.

I couldn't take it, and went out and pulled the starter.
Same as the old starter, nose cone is in several pieces.
c**p....
What do you think causes this?


thanks
Scott

[Sellmanb]

[scott in wa.]

No this one was from Autozone.

Came from the same factory in Mexico.

[Xophertony]

napa guarantees there starters for 4years (sunset autoparts napas go lifetime). you may want to consider one of those.

as for what would cause that. i can think of two things
1:crappy starter
2: siezed engine (not true in this case i hope)

[iansane]

[Sellmanb]

[chevymad]

That manager is an idiot. The lt1 starter either has a bad starter drive or the gears are stripped. The starter drive has a 1 way clutch inside it. No way to tell if the thing works or not on a bench. Lt1 gear reduction starters use plastic gears.. yes PLASTIC. Never seen the problem myself but i've read where they strip out on high compression engines. So that too is possible.


As far as the nose cone breaking. You get anybody to warranty that you're lucky. That's either caused by improper shimming or the engine kicked back on the starter while it was cranking. I've had it happen before, not nice. Most likely it too is a tune issue. If the timing is advanced to far can cause it. But with everything else going on I think it's more likely the wet plugs. When the plugs get wet they don't fire at the correct time. The few members here who have seen my chevelle fireballs can attest to that. Thats what caused the velle to backfire out the carb, wet plugs.

I had to give up on the napa starter for my car last time. Actually had to piece a starter together from my old one and the new napa one. I don't know where they're getting their starter drives(mexico/china) but they don't work. I ordered in 3 starters at work and not one would engage the flywheel. All 3 didnt have the bevel's cut into the starter teeth to allow them to start engaging the flywheel. They were just square cut. So unless the teeth lined up perfectly they just clashed and nothing happened. My boss didnt want to believe me, we usually don't have any trouble, so I ended up building a starter. Which is going bad now I'm thinking summit mini next.

[Twilightoptics]

Don't worry how fast the pressure bleeds off. You really need to watch your BLMS at idle and tune that part out like I told you with the maf table.

I would not change the fuel pressure with that bin I gave you, because it would just make the lean pop worse. You need to tune that area too.

Also, I'd run Autolite 25 spark plugs. 24's foul on me pretty quick, and I'm not rich. 25 is a hotter plug. What is your fuel pressure set at right now? If you have it set higher than 41ish, you need to start turning up the injector constant (single/double fire remember?). The ECM figures the injectors are at a certain pressure and rating. Since you have ford injectors, they are rated at alower pressure, so when you put them to GM pressure, they act bigger. ETC

I had the same problem with my plugs getting all nasty like when I first started out, and had a 350 with a Cam, worked heads, and TPI. Just need to watch what the sensors tell you, and adjust the bin to get it to read how you want.

[iansane]