|
Cascade Crew Message Forums
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Demon 12sec Club
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 1189 Location: You're not worthy
|
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:16 pm Post subject: Worst cars of all time: According to Forbes |
|
|
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2004/01/26/cx_dl_0126feat.html
Like the Chevrolet Vega on our list, AMC's Pacer was supposed to be fitted with a rotary engine--but both rotaries had technical problems late in their development (read: after incurring heavy research costs) that prevented them from seeing the light of day. Of course, both vehicles had plenty of problems that did reach production. The Pacer was a dud in terms of quality, execution and particularly styling. Make your own assessment about its bizarre proportions, but don't miss the one door that's bigger than the other
Early Vegas were poorly designed, and their aluminum engines failed constantly. The first time General Motors tested this car on the track, its front end reportedly broke off from the rest of the vehicle. When the Vega did reach the market, it was one of the most unabashedly no-frills cars in history. Starting at $2,090, the Vega offered little space with its 97-inch wheelbase (the distance from the center of the front wheel to the center of the rear) and had disturbingly little horsepower, 90, out of its four-cylinder engine.
Here was a car that had the potential to be a winner. The Citroen SM's half-covered rear wheel prefigured the look of Honda's Insight hybrid coupe, and while the SM's bizarre air/water suspension was years ahead of its time, it was poorly engineered and designed. The suspension would collapse. Its air and water would leak, and rubber seals on the suspension would wear down over time. Had you pressed the car to its absolute limits, the SM might have ended up riding on its axles.
For its Strada subcompact, Fiat was issuing service bulletins--instructions that manufacturers send to dealers about recurring problems--before the vehicle ever went on sale. Lawsuits over rust--and that must be some serious rust--helped drive Fiat out of the U.S., and the Strada was a particular stinker in this regard. Its floors, suspension, wheel arches and engine mounts had rust problems--to name a few parts. Not that the engines were even worth saving; the Strada's "range" began at 60 horsepower and topped out at 75.
Although many people loved them for their ruggedness, in the 1980s Ford's Bronco II sport utility practically invented the phrase "prone to rollovers." How bad did things get? The vehicle's drivers realized they probably shouldn't pilot the Bronco II up a steep hill; Ford's employees said as much in an inter-office memo that was circulated in 1986, according to the Center for Auto Safety. Ford sent out 288 service bulletins on the 1985 Bronco II alone; reading them spotlights a vehicle whose engines--and other major components, like alternators and ignition systems--failed often.
Editor's Note: Forbes.com was unable to obtain permission from Ford to use an image of a Bronco II from the 1983-1989 model years. The Bronco above is a 1980.
The Edsel is an automotive punch line, but its mechanical underpinnings were pretty decent; the car just never sold. It was overly laden with features and overpriced; i.e., Ford asked customers what they wanted to see on cars, but not what they were willing to pay for. Then, of course, we have the fact that the vehicle's polarizing styling drove it off the market two years after it appeared. Think of the Pontiac Aztek in an era when cars were mechanically inferior to the way they are now.
"You don't want to talk about the Pinto," said a Ford official. "Leave that one in the cemetery." Apparently, Ford has not forgotten the lawsuits and the public relations disasters forged by its Pinto hatchback. The Pinto's famous safety flaw, of course, was that it was prone to blowing up if rear-ended. When people talk about how bad American small cars created an opportunity for the Japanese to come in and clean house in the 1970s and '80s, they are referring to vehicles like this (and see Chevrolet Vega, second slide).
Early Honda Accord buyers were delighted to have a small car that looked and drove better than comparable American offerings. What they weren't so happy about were young Honda's Fiat-like quality problems; had they remained unaddressed, Honda may have gone the way of Fiat in this country. The first Accord's fenders would rust from the inside out. Pieces of interior trim would change color or fall off. An Accord owner might change his transmission five or six times, as he watched his primitive aluminum engine blow its gaskets.
There's a good reason that rotary engines never really caught on. Rotaries--which run in circles, unlike pistons, which run up and down--are like diesels; they had major problems early in life, creating a buying populace that to this date does not fully trust them. Mazda's RX-2, one of the first rotary-engine cars, had problems with catching on fire. It also raised the classic problems of rotary engines: bad fuel economy and emissions. Rotary seals would wear out early in an RX-2's life, leaking fuel and emissions along the way.
GM had two famously bad engines in the early 1980s: one that could operate on four, six or eight cylinders, and an Oldsmobile diesel. While the "variable displacement" engine was a pioneering idea that is just coming back on cars, the worst it usually got was that owners would have to clip undercarriage wires to get away from malfunctioning four- and six-cylinder modes. Oldsmobile's 5.7-liter diesel, which appeared from 1979 to 1984 on the Delta 88, was a bigger problem--a converted gasoline engine that was just a disaster. It would "smoke," demonstrating "rough idle" and "reduced performance," according to service bulletins.
By the time Pontiac killed its unprofitable Fiero after a four-year run, the vehicle was quite good. But GM spent a lot of money fixing a car that was billed originally as a fuel-efficient commuter car, when buyers expected it to be a high-end sports car. Whatever they may have been expecting, Fiero customers got a car that was initially unreliable. Pontiac issued 403 service bulletins on the '84 Fiero, plus a recall for engine fires. The vehicle had particular problems with driving in reverse--the gear would engage suddenly, or it wouldn't engage at all, or it would just do it very, very slowly.
If you want to know what sank Renault in the U.S., look further back in history than Le Car. The Dauphine, one of the first Renaults, was analogous to the first Hyundai Excel: high volume, newfangled and bad. Renault used to be one of the biggest car companies; the Dauphine, a populist vehicle that sold neck and neck with Volkswagen's Beetle for a time in the late 1950s, started a pattern of unacceptable engineering that almost killed the company. Here are some sample horsepower figures from Dauphines of the 1950s: 19, 32, 38. Folks, we're talking about taking half a minute to do 0-60 mph.
With names like Borgward and Wartburg, some cars made in the former East Germany just seem to shout "junk." The name Trabant carried connotations of greater ignobility; it was a poor man's Volkswagen, and Volkswagen itself used to cater to budget-minded buyers who expected quality problems. Trabants were built of a material called Duraplast, basically because its Sachsenring factory couldn't afford steel. Duraplast was resin reinforced with cotton fibers, and it made the Trabants look, feel and last like Soviet appliances.
Malcolm Bricklin was Yugo's old importer in the U.S., and he wants to bring the vehicles back. Malcolm Bricklin also built a vehicle called the Bricklin SV-1 in New Brunswick, and they say that if he ever sets foot in New Brunswick again they will shoot him on sight. Yugos, priced below $4,000 when first introduced, came to America as a great benefit to comedians, and at the expense of value-conscious customers. The GV was Yugo's bread-and-butter model, and owners complained constantly about engine problems, steering problems, problems with the stereo, problems with the floor--basically, everything. What worked in a Yugo worked as poorly and cheaply as possible. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sllt1776 Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 50 Location: seattle
|
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
funny that the pic of the bronco II was a full size bronco and not the mini bronco II. the real truck was much smaller than that. more like the explorer as compared to the expedition. bronco, that's a funny word. bronco bronco bronco. i love words that have no meaning or sound funny after you say them a bunch of times. _________________ Yup, I'm a traitor but I miss my 3rd gen.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Demon 12sec Club
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 1189 Location: You're not worthy
|
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
it says that its not really a bronco ii ... read closer |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sllt1776 Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 50 Location: seattle
|
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yea, forgot to read that part..........i wonder why the didn't get permission for the bronco II but the bronco was ok? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Slacker85TA Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 39 Location: Tigard, OR
|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wheel an '84 Bronco II offroad and have never rolled or tipped it. It's lifted 3" and has 31" tall ProComp XTerrains. It's my daily driver and it's not nearly as bad as everyone thinks. _________________ '85 T/A: 305 LG4, 700R4, Edelbrock TES headers, Hooker catback, K&N filter
'95 Z28: LT1, 4L60E, bone stock |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Roshambo Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 280 Location: Sacramento, CA
|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah... I think for the most part the "Worst Cars" lists you see are a bunch of BS.
Most of those cars are off the wall anyways.
-Joe _________________ 1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille Hardtop - 472/TH400, Air Bags with 10 switches, Memphis Audio.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dewey316 The Lama
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 7295 Location: Bringing the tech
1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS
|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
yeah, i am with Joe,
hell, my dream car has always been a Fiat Strada |
|
Back to top |
|
|
90RSrocks Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 421 Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon
|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey, my Yugo will kick your Fiat's butt any day of the week, mister! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dewey316 The Lama
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 7295 Location: Bringing the tech
1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS
|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
90RSrocks wrote: | Hey, my Yugo will kick your Fiat's butt any day of the week, mister! |
dude, pure italian engineering :nods: |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TecherB Princess B
Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 390 Location: Some place between gresham and portland
|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | Early Honda Accord buyers were delighted to have a small car that looked and drove better than comparable American offerings. What they weren't so happy about were young Honda's Fiat-like quality problems; had they remained unaddressed, Honda may have gone the way of Fiat in this country. The first Accord's fenders would rust from the inside out. Pieces of interior trim would change color or fall off. An Accord owner might change his transmission five or six times, as he watched his primitive aluminum engine blow its gaskets.
|
this sounds like a 3.0L chrysler minivan |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Midnight Sun Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 606 Location: Ellensurg, Washington Name: Eric Haugland
|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
HEY.... That Honda looks familiar.
I used to drive one of those before I finally got my birdie.
Damn good car, 316,000 miles before the clutch finally gave up. We could of fixed it to for like 300 bucks, but no one in my family felt like it. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Demon 12sec Club
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 1189 Location: You're not worthy
|
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I want one of the citroens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TecherB Princess B
Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 390 Location: Some place between gresham and portland
|
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think if you could find a Ford Edsel in good shape they are worth a lot because they are so rare. But the Edsel's are just ugly. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
90RSrocks Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 421 Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon
|
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Demon wrote: | I want one of the citroens | My neighbor a block up the street loves them and services them for other NW owners. He also owns about 6 of their cars (not counting parts cars) and one delivery truck they made. He could start his own dealership, lol |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kage87Z Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2004 Posts: 436 Location: 12 Second Club
1969 Chevrolet Camaro
|
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And, of course, I own a V8 Pinto Wagon, an 87 Bronco II, an 86 Fiero... and I owned an 78 Accord.
Figures, eh? _________________ "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Todd Beamer - 9/11
Never Forget
My 69's story: http://myspace.com/69camaro454
My 87 Z/28's tale of woah... http://myspace.com/87Zcamaro383 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|