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Brake upgrade
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set of Hawk HPS on the way. They've been good for me on the 2nd gen. Looked at EBC but the HPS were only $47 on amazon. (Used from Amazon, which means messed up box in my experience) Won't be a track car anyway.
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New pads should be here friday. But I went ahead and got the hose hooked up, bolted everything down and tried the wheel. Looks like it's got plenty of clearance with the formula wheels. Very Happy

Color still looks funky lol






Bout halfway done with the other side. Found it easier to just leave the knuckle on the car, then cut, drill/tap.
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both front sides done, just waiting for the new pads now.

Was kind of laughing to myself. I was looking at Luke Skaff's page to see how to modify the spindle. On his page there's a link to a 2003 tgo post that "the post that started it all" In that post there's Dan/Alloy helping to figure out how to do the c4hd upgrade. Way back then Dan came out to my house with his upgrade to test fit both my 16" formula wheels and Mike's GTA crosslace wheels. The formy wheels fit with tons of room, the crosslaces however wouldn't work. So you could sort of say I was in at the beginning of the third gen brake upgrades.. yet it took me 13 years to finally upgrade my own!
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Alphius
Peanut


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound

1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, that's awesome. Laughing
'Bout time you got some real brakes on there. Cool

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84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow
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Dewey316
The Lama


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 7295
Location: Bringing the tech

1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chevymad wrote:
In that post there's Dan/Alloy helping to figure out how to do the c4hd upgrade. Way back then Dan came out to my house with his upgrade to test fit both my 16" formula wheels and Mike's GTA crosslace wheels. The formy wheels fit with tons of room, the crosslaces however wouldn't work. So you could sort of say I was in at the beginning of the third gen brake upgrades.. yet it took me 13 years to finally upgrade my own!


Yeah, funny to think about it now, Dan put the first standard C4 swap on his IROC, then the 2nd to test if it fit was my car. I think I also have Ed's prototype (and possibly the only set in existence) for my CTS-V brakes, with the C6 Z-51 rotor combination.

The Crew...leading the way since 1997.
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The HPS pads came today. I have no idea why Amazon considered these "used" Box isn't dirty or beat up. The pads themselves are still plastic wrapped. Even the sticker inside is in good shape. But since I bought them as "used" they cost $47 instead of $74.

I bought a $200 JKS track bar this way too. Cost me about 1/2 of what new would have. It too was all brand new.
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmkk... they seem to be a wee bit touchy lol. Only have the front upgrade done. Decided to take the car to town and set the brakes in on the way. About the 5th application, of what I'd consider moderate pressure.. I locked the fronts up. This will take some getting used to. I actually almost reconsidered getting a couple beers at the brewery knowing I wasn't used to these.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What rear brakes do you have?

Might be due to poor bias.

http://stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh it's definitely not correct yet. As I said, I've only just done the front upgrade. Right now I've got the Dewey brake system working and still have drums in the rear. While drums actually have more brake power when cold.. I don't think these are even working correctly.. so... ya.

But, I'm not sure you could even lock the front brakes before and it was so much easier tonight it had me a bit worried.

I've got a set of rear Ls1 brakes to install as well. They have powerstop pads and drilled/slotted rotors. Will also be changing to a disc/disc proportioning valve. And i've got 3 different springs to try in it to adjust bias. It looks like the medium spring should be the one I'll like. The track guys seem to like the heavier spring, but they do say that the tail can occasionally lock first when using it.
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Started on the rear conversion tonight. Got the axles out and the old drum/backing plate assembly off of one side. I've had a bit of rear end noise for quite awhile now. Sounds about the same as when I had a bad pinion bearing shortly after putting the Zexel in. Magnet on the rear cover shows a bit of fairly course metal on it. Gears so far look great. Now the great debate.. do I just repair the bearings or change gears? Changing gears means going back to playing with the trans governor, trying to find the correct speedometer sensor/gear combo, and the biggest issue.. it's not budgeted. I'm thinking i'll probably just repair... but.. Laughing
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Dewey316
The Lama


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 7295
Location: Bringing the tech

1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What gears do you have?
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ordered bearings today, so I guess I made my decision. I've got 3.23s currently. Not sure I want to go all the way to 3.73 or not. Especially when I'm usually 2hrs from anywhere. 3.55 seems more optimum, but only one company seems to make that gear.

But unless I find something bad when I get it the rest of the way apart, looks like i'll keep the 3.23s for now.
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Alphius
Peanut


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound

1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3.23s are fine with the 700's short first and 26" tires. I like my engine to loaf along on the highway. Wink Max I'd want is 3.42, but that's such a minimal change from 3.23 that it probably isn't worth the cost.

<--- Says the guy who is strongly considering going from 3.08 to 3.73 in his truck. Razz

_________________
84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly what I thought about 3.42 as well Gabe. So little change not worth doing unless something is broken.
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aaron_sK
Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran 3.73's with a 700 for awhile. It was a dumb combo, I cannot recommend. Laughing
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pulled the rear end out. Carrier bearings look ok, but do have signs that a little foreign material has passed through. Both pinion bearing races are just starting to pit in the middle of the race. Not near as bad as last time, but still not good.

After that started modifying the axle end so that the new backing plates will fit.

What it looks like behind the drum backing plate.



After cutting off the excess. Still need to clamp the new plate on and redrill the mounting bracket.

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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went to work today and pressed the rear end bearings on/off. Decided to just redo them all again. Ones that are on there are Mexican Timken. Seems like most of the bearings I replace for pitting on mopar stuff are also Timken. New bearings are SKF so we'll see how they work out.

Had some head scratching moments when setting up to drill the holes to hold the backing plates on. It really seemed like the caliper should have gone on the back side of the axle. Both plates are marked left/right and looked pretty correct for mounting that direction. But the holes didn't line up correctly and the ebrake cables were headed the wrong direction. Searched several upgrade threads and nobody showed completed pictures. Until I found a link to Al's thread here on CC! Laughing

Next issue was that one of the ebrake lever assemblies had fallen apart in the cardboard box I bought all this stuff in. I couldn't seem to get it to work correctly no matter how I put it together. Finally took the working side apart and discovered I was missing a short hardened pin. So I cut off the blunt end of an old drill bit and made myself a new one. Working fine now.

On a sad note. Sad My trusty Makita sawzall that i've had since 92 is on its last legs. Something banging around in there and the cord looks like a fire hazard. It still managed to complete the job but I'm going to be looking for a new one. Thinking next one will be cordless. Got some decisions there though. I've got 3 sets of cordless tools all with different batteries. My work stuff is all Mac/Dewalt, which I'll probably go with, but that means buying more batteries and a charger for home. I've brought my old work stuff home which is Porter Cable. I've got 2 tools in that set and they both work awesome. But they've obsoleted that battery style, so when these are done the tools are done. Finally i've got a pair of 19.2 volt craftsman drills. I'd get rid of these but one is a 90* drill which is extremely handy. These would be my last choice unless extremely cheap. They're still the old nicad, where the otheres are all lithium. So anyone experienced with a sawzall for any of these?
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aaron_sK
Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you're in my wheelhouse, Brandon. I've run almost every brand and type of cordless tool on a variety of jobsites over the years. Cool

Right now Milwaukee's 18V is at the top of the heap by a mile. They have the best quality batteries, the largest battery amperage, the best selection of tools, the best brushless selection, the best tool durability and the best warranty. I am fully switched over to their brushless stuff now, to the point where I actually sold off a bunch of my corded tools because they hadn't been out of their cases all summer. Laughing

Their 12V stuff is perfectly serviceable, but it's at a funny price point where you may as well go for the 18V or downgrade to something really cheap.

Makita LTX would be my third choice. Before I drank the Big Red koolaid I was all Teal. The batteries are not great (you'll get a couple years max) and they don't have a great brushless selection or a good high amp hour battery, but they have a good overall selection of tools and they beat Milwaukee on price.

DeWalt is not able to keep up with contractors at this point, so they seem to be trying to split the difference and go halfway for the homeowner market. 60V is entirely a gimmick IMHO. Lack of voltage is not really an issue in the field, but amp hours are. So having a battery that offers slightly more power while discharging three times as fast is silly. The tools themselves are typical middling DeWalt quality. Their cases are cheap and their motors always smell like burning brushes (and have for as long as I have been using them, back to the 14.4V NiCad days). That said, they will beat the price of any non-homeowner brand so if you're looking to tool up cheap you can do much worse.

Speaking of which, garbage to not ever buy: Ridgid, Craftsman, Porter Cable.

If you're going pure homeowner stuff Ryobi is probably your best bet. It's cheap garbage for sure, but it's really cheap for what you get, and the ONE+ has by far the most comprehensive tool list of the cheapo brands. Also, since it's Milwaukee's distant cousin, you'll sometimes get nifty engineering ideas that they test on homeowners before releasing it to us asshole carpenters, as we tend to be less forgiving. Laughing For instance, the Ryobi Airstrike was the prototype that became the Milwaukee Fuel nailer.

Edit: If you do go Milwaukee make sure you shop around and talk to your reps. They run some screaming promos, and most of them are aimed at guys jumping in and looking to tool up all at once. Lately they have been offering at least $200 worth of free tools or batteries with a kit purchase.


Edit 2: 90* drill problem solved... Wink
http://www.cpomilwaukee.com/milwaukee-2615-20-m18-18v-cordless-lithium-ion-3-8-in--right-angle-drill-driver--bare-tool-/miln2615-20,default,pd.html
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, thanks for the info. I've actually had really good luck with the porter cable drill and driver. They feel good and the lithium batteries have lasted me forever. So no complaints from me on them.

I've always had good luck with Makita corded tools, not so much with their cordless.

I'll agree with you on the Craftsman.

I've switched over to 20v max dewalt/mac brushless tools at work and have had no problem with power or battery life. I get 10-14 days out of a charge. I keep one each of both the small and large batteries. Large battery is nice when I'm doing some heavy drilling or usually I just keep it in my 1/2" impact. It kind of helps balance the weight. That tool is pretty heavy.

I have a Milwaukie 12v 1/4 drive ratchet I really like. It's about used up though. I don't think anyone else makes one that's really equivalent for size/power either.

So after all this, I was looking over the tools tonight at the box store. Bought a 4 piece 20v max dewalt set. 1/2 drill, 1/4 impact driver, sawzall, and flashlight ( Rolling Eyes ) 2 batteries and charger. $299. I'll look at picking up a 90* drill and get rid of all my oddballs except the Milwaukie ratchet.

You know.. this is par for the course. I ask for advice then do my own thing before anyone answers. Laughing
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aaron_sK
Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chevymad wrote:
You know.. this is par for the course. I ask for advice then do my own thing before anyone answers. Laughing


Ain't that always how it goes? Laughing

The 20V max stuff is totally fine, and you can't argue with that price. To get an equivalent kit from Milwaukee you'd be at $430 for brushed and $650 for brushless.

The Milwaukee 12V does have a weight advantage, especially vs brushed. The brushless 18V is light enough that I haven't bothered to buy a separate 1/4 impact for small jobs, but it does tempt me once in awhile.
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