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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I have no idea what the hypertech required for timing. I can't read the chip some kind of copy protection. The ZZ4 bin had a couple more degrees even with the distributor set at 0. I didn't realize that the L69 bin also requires 6* so most likely the hypertech is supposed to be there too. My 87 lg4 label says 0*.
I'm currently running the ZZ4 bin with ESC. But I have the 305 knock sensor and ESC module. I see the Monte guys are saying they havent seen any difference between the 305 and 350 stuff. I'm debating whether to change the sensor and module or even just use the ZZ4 bin with no ESC.
Kind of strange how the ZZ4 bin was smog legal for the 350 swap in an lg4 car. Especially since it removes EGR functionality. Which is a plus for me. Old setup I had the EGR blocked off, solenoid plugged in. This set of heads has no exhaust passage, so no EGR.
Oh and one thing about not setting the chip to 0* and leaving the distributor there. The car will hardly run in timing mode at 0*. Barely wants to idle at 6. Would almost make more sense to change chip and base timing to 10* so it would be easier to set. |
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Alphius Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 2429 Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, doesn't hurt to set the base timing higher and adjust the base in the bin to match. Well, as long as the starter will still crank the engine over hot, but 10* should be fine. I think I ran 12-14ish base when I had the Stealth Ram engine. ESC should be disabled during crank, it is on TBI/TPI so I can only imagine carb is the same. _________________ 84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Carb doesn't have an ESC... you actually have to disconnect the 4 wire connector on the distributor. Thus why on everything else it tells you not to do that.
I'm running 20* initial on the poncho. I need to add a bit of mechanical back to it and drop that back to 16 or so. Makes the mini starter grunt a bit.. especially hot. |
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Alphius Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 2429 Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Electronic Spark Control. Wasn't talking about the single pin connector. I just mean it doesn't control timing during crank, so your initial is what you get during cranking. After the engine starts, the ECM starts controlling timing off the tables. _________________ 84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I ran 6ºBTDC mechanical/base setting on ALL my incarnations on that car. Never had a problem with it running to set the timing. I used one of those adjustable timing pointers - degreed and found true Zero and 6º and set the big arrow there. Super easy to set.
Even when I switched to the Commander 950, still set it to 6. _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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6 it will idle. 0 you have to give it a blip of the throttle when it tries to stall out. This is with the 4 wire disconnected of course.
Just gave it a run to town tonight. Running awesome! I think Deb can even drive it again. Earlier I hooked the trans back up to the ECM so it has tcc control. That works great with the ZZ4 settings. Also took the governor out and switched in a heavier spring. It will now downshift as you slow down to a stop. Never did that before. Not sure the governors quite there yet, but quite driveable as is. I'm feeling much better about all these "upgrades" now. Chip was the big piece of the puzzle.
The only thing I'm having trouble getting used to is that it doesn't compression brake as much as before. This a function of one of the timing tables? |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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More timing advance in low-load high-rpm cells will cause less compression braking IME. You've got to be careful tuning that area though, it's easy to make it jerky on the transition from part throttle to decel by having too much decel retard or having too much transition between the cells. Very tough to get completely right.
You don't have any sort of DFC because of your carbness, right? |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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It appears that there is DCF. Not sure how to set it though. Note says hex 14=MC on.
Just drove it to Longview and back. She runs so smooth again. Lovin it. Got stuck in road construction going both directions. No problems, no overheat even with the AC on. Speaking of which, AC doesn't drag the motor down so badly anymore either.
While waiting for the pilot car, I remembered I haven't reset the idle mix since changing the chip/timing. Might clean up idle a bit more.
No SES light at all.. Fuel consumption is a bit... well not like before!
Only 2 things bothersome at all. The lack of compression braking, and I seem to have developed a small annoying exhaust leak on the drivers side. Either collector or perhaps the Barnes headers have finally rusted through somewhere. Will have to look for it later. |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a vid of a completely cold start today. Not too bad for a carb. Of course its not like efi.. but not too bad either.
https://youtu.be/4EkaNLuD2dU |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, too little timing for the cam will cause all sorts of weird problems, specifically overheating, nosediving under load, surging, and sucking fuel.
I'll bet you GM's decel cut is just the MC solenoid running fully closed. |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Rechecked idle mix tonight. Wasn't really off, so I'm good there. Looked for my exhaust leak and found it's just the collector gasket. The Barnes headers are still going. Amazing! I mean it's been what 15 years since I traded him for them? |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Mileage is coming up..... to 12mpg this time! lol Car is running great though and trans is working better all the time.
Just made a deal for a full set of LS brakes. Hopefully that will take care of my slowing down issues. |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Replaced the collector gasket. I forgot to grab one from work so last night I stopped in at Oreilly's to get one. I am so not used to paying retail for things. One of those old soft white mr gasket crappy header collector gaskets for $11.86!!? Meh.. bought it, went to install and found out it was wrong anyway. Was digging through my bench and found one of the nice felpro ones. Oreally is getting their expensive bs back. |
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Alphius Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 2429 Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:59 am Post subject: |
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I'm glad it's coming together after all that headache you went through. The brakes will be a nice upgrade for sure! _________________ 84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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While under the car yesterday I glanced at the inside of the rotors. No wonder they feel like crap right now. They've rusted away except for about a 3/4" band in the middle. So that little strip is all that's touching the brake pad. I knew I had better brakes before! |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yup.. see lots of it. These were new rotors when the pads were installed. I bet there's 75% pad left too. Doesn't matter now though. |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Btw.. this thread has really changed gears a few times! |
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Alphius Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 2429 Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:19 am Post subject: |
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That's one reason I buy high-quality Centric or OEM blanks for my cars. _________________ 84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow |
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5474
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I see OEM rotors do this alot as well. All makes too. I've heard Centric is pretty good. That's the brand the jeep guys like too. I've got Black Magic brakes on my jeep and Blaine(owner) recommends Centric.
A few years ago I remember seeing some Aussie rotors coming on to the market. Had a much better cooling fin pattern. But haven't really seen or heard anything since. |
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