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Found some photos of my car from 2005...

 
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IROCDave
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject: Found some photos of my car from 2005... Reply with quote

Life has a way of redirecting your interests and spending time on this forum is a prime example of this. Kids, new home, work, kids..they are all reasons.

Reason I am finally posting these photos has to do with dumb luck. Back in 2003 my wife started taking online college courses and the desktop we shared wasn't cutting it. I was in to online gaming and we had just had our first child. Lisa wanted a laptop so she could work from anywhere in the house, anytime. I bought her a really nice laptop from Frye's to solve the issue.

Fast forward to April of 2016 and my desk top ate shizzle and flat out wouldn't boot. Lisa has had a couple of desktops since the Fujitsu laptop and my computer has evolved over the years and the old parts went into my two sons computers.

When my computer crapped out I pulled the laptop out and fired it up for the first time in 7 years. It was so slow I began searching through the files deleting the crap my wife had saved, no rhyme or reason to the file names or locations. I found some photos I had been looking for 10 years.

The origins for the repaint and what it looked like when I brought it home.

reason for repaint -


Yea, that sucked. My 2.5 YO son popped my car out of gear and it impaled my wife's car. The insurance company wasn't happy and it took lots of explaining to the wife and insurance company.

I pulled everything off the car possible except for the rear hatch glass. I got it back in the same condition. Spent 100+ hours color sanding and buffing before bolting stuff back on. I wanted a factory quality paint job with show car quality results. I knew I would be color sanding after the shop cut and buffed so I paid extra for 5 layers of clear. I bet I took off 3 layers to flatten out the orange peel.



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IROCDave
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More after paint photos.


You get the idea.



I sent this car to the body shop with no body bolt on parts attached, no stickers, rubber, gaskets or sealant etc.
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IROCDave
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I took more photos of the color sanding, but I didn't. Here are a couple from parts being reinstalled after color sanding but before final buff and wax.





Loose parts prior to color sanding.


Nose clip going back in -

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IROCDave
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only reason I'm posting these now is because some of you guys have seen my car after the repaint and I told you I did most of the work on it. Yea, I didn't spray it, but I got it ready for paint then did the grunt work getting the paint flat and putting it back together as well as putting every factory correct sticker, light, weather seal ( notice the T0Top bar was removed, bought the last on in GM inventory as well as T-Top gaskets) back on the car.

It's still sitting in my garage, on scates. It's covered in a heavy layer of dust and last night I leaned against it while talking to the wife and rubbed some off. The paint is still flat as glass and looks better than brand new.
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Dewey316
The Lama


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 7295
Location: Bringing the tech

1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, its fun to find old photos.

Get your car out of the garage! Its been a lot of years, but it was stunning in person.
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Xophertony
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Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 5304
Location: Portland, Oregon.

1988 Pontiac GTA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neat-o!
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iansane
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 5740
Location: Bothell

1991 Pontiac Trans Am

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, the effort expended on that car while never be depictable in photos. It's truly a stunning auto with a lot of time spent on the small things.
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IROCDave
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. Coming back here is like reconnecting with old friends as well as motivation to get the car back on the road. There is a guy seriously interested in buying the T-Ram and most of the SLP parts. I gave him all the information he asked for and is willing to pay a fair price, but I'm having a hard time following through. I would love to drop a 6.0 or 6.2 liter LS in the car but just about every performance part I've purchased in the last 20 years would go by the wayside.


I could drop a new SBC short block in it, have the old TF heads rebuilt, stuff the old cam back in it as well as injectors and have a fun, reliable car again that is good for low 13's / high 12's or punt and start over with a LSx build that takes a couple of years.

What would you do?
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you work faster than Jon it won't take you anywhere close to two years. An LS swap can be done in a few weekends if you push. Lots of stuff can be had off the shelf for it now, it's no longer the wild west.

The T-Ram is super cool and if I saw one at a show it would definitely cause me to take note far more than yet another gen-3 swap, however as Gabe and I found doing the swap in his Z28, for the same level of power as a smallblock, a gen-3 will be immensely more driveable. I think that's the basis of your question, though: own cool toys or enjoy cool toys. Laughing

Another thing to consider is that SBC parts are hemorrhaging value. If you sell your speed parts off now you'll catch the tail end of the market that may not exist in it's current form for much longer as more and more GM trucks hit the wrecking yards.
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Dewey316
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
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Location: Bringing the tech

1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you had a plain jane hopped up 305 car, I would say LS. BUT, there is something cool about seeing what was for a short time, the rare and exotic SBC stuff like the T-Ram. From the sidelines, I think it is cool to see some of the cars still hot rodded up with the old SBC stuff like yours.

Think of it like seeing a old ford with a flathead V8 with the old edelbrock heads and hilborn stacks on them. It transports you back to the 90's just seeing the a car done they way we used to all want to build one.

That said, yeah a 6.2L LS is going to smoke any SBC stuff now.
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Alphius
Peanut


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound

1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I'm going to contradict my usual MO here. The T-Ram is such a cool piece of history on these cars and so rare that seeing one done up correctly in a beautiful IROC would catch my eye more than an LS swap in the same car. I think that for your goals, it's a valid option.

Aaron makes a good point about driveability; here's how I see it: Your SBC option as a low 13's to high 12's engine will be very equivalent powerwise to a completely stock 98-02 Z28 dropout drivetrain with exhaust, intake and tune like I have. When my final 350 broke, I had a choice very similar to yours to make. I gave up a little bit of power and spent a lot of extra money to go LS1, but it was worth it to me based on the way that I like to use the car.

Only you can make the right choice for what you want out of the car. I suspect that for you, that might mean SBC and T-Ram. That'll still be a great mild cruiser. If you are a power junkie, you'll always be at a disadvantage with a Gen 1 small block. Do you want to be in that rat race?

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IROCDave
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the honest responses. I say money is an issue, but I can put my foot down and spend 10K on the car if I really wanted to and put a healthy LSx powertrain in it. Yea, the wife and kids would have to sacrifice for a little while and if the boat broke it would sit which would suck for the entire family this summer.

I am loyal to a fault and I would love to get my car to run low 12's with an old school SBC topped off by a rare intake. I really enjoyed my car for almost a decade with the last set up, it wasn't the fastest thing on the road but it was fun to drive, it made enough torque to break traction with fresh good years at 45 MPH in 2nd gear at full throttle. When knowledgeable people looked under the hood they were like WTF is that? That WTF question leads in to the 3rd gen SLP firehawk discussion that very few know about.

My brother has a legit low 11 second daily driven GTO . It has a stroked 6.0 liter that is now a 402 that makes well over 500RWHP. I have driven the crap out of that car, the power on tap is amazing as well as the grip on street tires. That said, I don't like driving it as it's so easy to get in to triple digit speeds with just a couple second stab at the throttle. The power is amazing though.

I know if I sell off the SLP intake and associated parts to make it work on a 3rd gen or Corvette they wont be seen again. I have been following these intakes since the mid 90's and mine has all the parts to fit it to any SBC. I haven't seen anyone else with the same thing for sale.

So my dilemma is better performance per dollar or sacrifice performance for the oddity.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of disagree with the others. You can make a small block T-ram wicked quick 0-70 mph if you build the car right. A quick 0-70 is really all you need to punish people on the street. Sure, a blistering 1/4 mile is cool but those kind of speeds on the street is fairly unrealistic. I think you can get a ton of smiles with what you've got if you set up the car right.
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IROCDave wrote:
That said, I don't like driving it as it's so easy to get in to triple digit speeds with just a couple second stab at the throttle.


This is a problem that is not discussed enough in my opinion. Too fast of a car is a very bad thing for fun and drivability. With the advent of gen-3 powerplants, a few bucks will give you something that is so fast that it is simply not fun to drive.

Then again I may be a bit biased. The two funnest cars I ever owned had 140hp. Laughing
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Alphius
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Location: Grand Mound

1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaron_sK wrote:
IROCDave wrote:
That said, I don't like driving it as it's so easy to get in to triple digit speeds with just a couple second stab at the throttle.


This is a problem that is not discussed enough in my opinion. Too fast of a car is a very bad thing for fun and drivability. With the advent of gen-3 powerplants, a few bucks will give you something that is so fast that it is simply not fun to drive.


Well said, and this is the exact reason I'm not adding any more power to my Camaro. Completely stock LS1 is fine, thank you very much. Too easy to go extra-legal as-is. Even with only 320/345 to the wheels, I'm faster than 98% of other cars on the road. Even newer SS/GT flavor pony cars have a hard time due to my weight advantage.

QwkTrip wrote:
I kind of disagree with the others.


Don't know where you're getting this; John, Aaron and I all seem to lean towards the T-Ram engine for uniqueness, sentimental value, sunk cost and ultimately the fact that it'll still be a very fun car. Aaron and I just also always entertain the idea of LS swaps as the current SBC end-game; that doesn't mean we don't see the value in Dave's setup as well. If he had some junky stock TPI or god-forbid a carb'ed 350, our answer I'm sure would've been an unequivocal "dump that thing in a lake and buy a 5.3 you dummy", but that's very far from the case in this instance. T-Rams don't grow on trees.

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QwkTrip
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Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I meant by disagree is that I think the small block can be faster than you give credit.

Dave, I think you should keep the T-Ram whether or not you use it. I think you sought it out as more of a collector item anyway. Hang it like a picture on the wall and enjoy having it in your collection of automotive history. Or if you want to use it then use it. But I don't think you want to sell it, and I don't think you need to sell it no matter what path you go.
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Alphius
Peanut


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Grand Mound

1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, got it.

Yeah, the small block can be fast but for equal power to an LSx it'll always have worse driveability.

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Twilightoptics
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
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Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you run the setup you want for the goals and budget you have in mind.

T-Ram makes plenty of power, and you have it. I say roll it and be the outlier. If you want modern go LS, if you want old school go SBC. Options are everywhere. What makes you happy?

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QwkTrip
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1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do an Ecoboost. That is original.
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IROCDave
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Posts: 957
Location: Snohomish WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally got my computer back in order and operational and checked back in on this thread.

You guys have articulated my conundrum better than I and really get it. I think the best way to go is do what is needed to repair or replace the short block and I'm really tempted to have the old Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads rebuilt and stuff the old cam back in it and just enjoy the reliability and fun of driving a low 13 / high 12 second car that no one expects to run that well.

If I want something faster, I can buy a decent 3rd gen that needs a motor or transmission and go all in with LS power, modern transmission etc. My oldest son is 13 and is showing an interest in working on cars. He isn't getting mine, but maybe the LSx powered car is his.
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