Cascade Crew

IROCDave · Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: Broken goat.....

My brother called me Thursday and told me he broke his goat. He was racing a late model supra coming home from work Thursday morning (he works a night shift) and felt a noticable miss at about 6800rpm. He said he was several cars ahead when it happened. It had a slight miss / hesitation before in the upper RPM range but now it is at all rpm's. He took the car to Ellis, it now needs the head removed to pull out the bent valve and to also see if it broke the piston. The culprit was a broken valve spring. Guess thats what happens when you install a cam with square lobes. The crappy part about it is that when he bought the LS3 heads he had the valve springs upgraded. They were supposed to be good for .650 lift.

chevymad · Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject:

They can be good for that lift.. but at a certain level valve springs become a maintenance item. I broke alot of lunati springs in just a couple of years and i'm no where near that level.

Lots of lift and quick ramps.. you could be changing valve springs every year.

IROCDave · Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject:

A couple of days after he had the heads / cam installed I took his car down to turbo tech in Tacoma to get it dyno tuned. It made decent power but the curve was flat after 6400rpm. Ellis thought the springs were bad out of the box, they only had a couple hundred miles at the time. They now have about 4K on them.

The ramps are really aggresive and he knew it was going to be a maintenence issue. He had already scheduled with Ellis to swap out the spring Friday. Missed it by a day, now he may have to replace a piston along with springs, valve and guide.

chevymad · Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:44 pm Post subject:

Pistons are tough. I'll be very surprised if it broke one. I've had imports break the valves clean off and stick them in the piston tops before.. clean em up and they work fine. But its probably done nothing but kiss the valve so it doesnt seal.

I know about the bad new springs too. I installed a set of new but unknown brand springs in my 74. I had Paul test one before I used it and the pressures looked like it would work. 1 year and no miles later.. and car wouldnt rev over 4k on the dyno. Installed a set of crowers now.. seems to have cured that issue Smile

iansane · Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject:

But...he won, right? Very Happy

That sucks! What's he rev to?

IROCDave · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:26 am Post subject:

He said he had the supra covered by a couple of articulating metro bus lengths when it broke, must have been well into triple digits.

He shifts between 6500 and 6900, depends on which gear the car is in.

IROCDave · Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject:

The finger pointing is in full swing, but long story short, my brother is having Ellis build a 408 out of his alluminium 6.0 litre. Should be a monster and a hundred plus pounds lighter than the typical stroked 6 litre.

QwkTrip · Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject:

Sweet. A well made 408 is a monster engine. Is he going with LS7 heads or LS3?

IROCDave · Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject:

He is keeping the TSP LS3 heads but having them milled ( already paid TSP to do it but he doesnt think they did) and also having the porting cleaned up. I saw the CNC job he paid to have them do, it looked like ass.
He is buying a cam from the LSx / LS3 head guru and is having the most knowledgable builder / tuner in the area put it togethter. Ellis told him it should put down 480+ HP to the wheels and last being dailey driven.

QwkTrip · Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject:

I found a set of used Lingenfelter L92 heads for sale. Giving me something to think about.

IROCDave · Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject:

Update on my brothers GTO.

He is convinced that the house springs TSP installed on the LS3 heads caused the damage to his engine. Keep in mind my bro told TSP what cam was going into his engine and requested a certain manufacures valve spring. TSP shipped the heads with their house springs installed. When he recieved them noticed that they did not have the springs he specified installed but they charged him less. He called TSP and asked WTF? They told him those springs would be fine. A couple thousand miles later and two broken springs, more than a 8 bent valves and one broken piston later he was pissed off.

I recommended a way to handle the problem. It is down and dirty, but effective. I had a poor fitment issue with a very well known high end exhaust manufacturer that cost me about 700.00 dollars to rectify.

I told my bro what I went through and how I handled it and suggested doing the same.

Anyhow, after several private attempts to reconcile the issue with no action my bro started telling his story on a couple of forums. Within minutes he was contacted and asked to remove his posts by TSP. They are now willing to do what ever it takes to make it right with him.

I warned my bro that he would take alot of heat for holding a well known companies feet to the fire but it paid off. He did get alot of flack for doing it, but it paid off. The internet is a fantastic tool for consumers, you just need the stones to stand behind your opinion.

His heads are in the back seat of my car and will be packaged tomorrow and shipped back for a full rebuild and double check of the questionable port and mill job.

Internet justice prevailed.

iansane · Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:29 pm Post subject:

IROCDave · Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject:

Anyone have a set of boxes for cylinder heads that I can have?

Twilightoptics · Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:17 am Post subject:

IROCDave · Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:01 am Post subject:

So two months later my brothers car is back on the road.
The valve springs broke and caused the valves to become intiment with several piston. Two of the pistons had moderate damage so he did the logical thing and had Ellis build a 402 CID stroker. Callies crank, Engle rods, Mahle pistons etc. He had a custom cam made made by some guru ( 4 weeks later it arrived) and also recieved a set of lightweight roller lifters. The company he purchased the heads from re ported them and installed sodium filled valves.
After the engine was together and running Ellis noticed the lifter clatter. The lifters were solid rollers. He could have made them work if he had 5 sets of different length pushrods. My brother didnt want to go through that ordeal so he ordered another set of lifters, head gaskets etc.

This thing is a beast. It pulls hard from 2500 to 5500, then pulls really hard to 7200. It should run low 11's on street rubber (summer only star specs) and high 10's on slicks. Thats if the 1400.00 carbon fiber driveshaft can take it.

As brotherly love goes I am pessimistic, but dam, that thing pull like a MFer. [/list]

IROCDave · Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject:

I drove it tonight, all I can say is Stupid Fast. Nothing like spinning the tires at 80 and still pulling like freight train.

QwkTrip · Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject:

Good. Glad he's happier with it in the end.

iansane · Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject:

iansane · Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject:

IROCDave · Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject:

Well, if the car performed as well as his check book it should in the 9,s.
The solid lifter episode cost him another 2500.00. This was after the engine was put together and tuning started.
Ellis pulled the heads ( 250.00 for new MLS gaskets) and installed the new lifters. When he tourqed the heads down the 2nd to last head stud pulled the threads out of the alluminum block. I guess GM has proprietary threads, so it had to be dragged to a GM dealer to have a helicoil installed.

I asked my bro what he had into the build total, but I didnt get a straight answer. He kept forgetting parts. I would say that he has a legit 14K in the engine, transmission rebuild and drive train easey. Hell, the carbon fiber driveshaft alone was 1400.00. He also had to upgrade the rear diff, posi and axles.

It should be good for high tens with sticky track tires, low 11's with sticky street rubber.

It hauls ass though. I was suprised at how easey it was to drive fast. It will smoke the tires below 80 but it goes straight, has no chasis flex and you dont have to counter steer at all. It just goes. I would guess that a new Z06 or ZR1 Corvette is the same. Eaey to drive and stupid fast.