Cascade Crew

RSFreak

What would be the symptoms of my ignition timing being extremely retarded? Last weekend James and I set the base timing (with the est unhooked) to 0 degreees as specified by the emissions sticker. As most of you know I had a serious lack of power problem. So today I decided I would mess with the distributor and set the timing by ear. I advanced the timing alot (20 or more degrees) 'til the idle smoothed out. I only drove it around my apartment parking lot 'cause I don't have tabs, but the power seems to have improved quite a bit. So maybe my timing chain is off a tooth? Stretched perhaps? Balancer slipping on inner ring? Or maybe the timing is way advanced now? Any ideas? Confused

aaron_sK · Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject:

The initial or overall?

Initial timing being to low will result in a dog off the line, and long crank tmes

Overall too low will result in crap mileage, and a power dropoff.

Have you confirmed with a timing light that the ecm is advancing the timing properly?

RSFreak · Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject:

The ecm controls the overall timing right? So yeah, I'm referring to initial (base) timing. I don't know what you mean by "properly", but with the est hooked up, yes it does advance the timing as the revs go up. I do know one thing we f'ed up however. We set base timing at 0 degrees however stock (remember its a 2.8L) is 10 degrees BTDC. It is probably around 15 to 20 degrees BTDC now. Would 10 degrees of retard be enough to create the problems I've been having?

kurfbird · Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: Timing

TDC your Number 1 Cylinder and see if the timing mark lines up correctly.

I normally pull the # 1 plug and ether hold my finger over the hole. Or wad up a paper towel (to plug the hole) and tap the engine and the paper towel will come out . Then look to see if your timing marks line up.

aaron_sK · Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:26 pm Post subject:

RSFreak · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:54 am Post subject:

I can't really test it on the street since it has no tabs! Very Happy

My real question is could the timing being set at 0 degrees as opposed to 10 degrees cause my loss of power problems? Confused

Boostd1 · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject:

izcain · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject:

really depend on the motor for the timing..... Dont know about the whole dyno theory but I have personally seen a 50hp jump with each degree that I ramped in on the last drag car I built. Course it was a 605Ci ford that was in the quadruple digits anyways but still. Timing affects everything!

Twilightoptics · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject:

kurfbird · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: timing

Which motor setup is this? Remember to find the proper #1 also. It's not always forward on the drivers-side.[/quote]

If I rember correctly a v6 is on the passenger side

Boostd1 · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject:

Yeah I'm not talking about a 1000+ HP V8...lol

LS1 rear-world dyno testing shows about a 3-4WHP improvement per * of timing advance. So, on a fairly stock engine, 3-4 WHP is about right.

But also the the OP, too much timing can cause loss of power because the motor is being very inefficient and it is most likely knocking, resulting in less overall ignition timing. Also, excessive timing advance shows up as a high NOx reading, although you probably cannot test this without going to DEQ.

izcain · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject:

aaron_sK · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: timing

RSFreak · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject:

Yup, its a 2.8L V6. #1 is forward pass side. I'm not a complete noob! That being said, prior to this car all of my experience had been with SBCs. I had a hell of a time setting timing when I thought #1 on the V6 was front driver side! Laughing

aaron_sK · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject:

John, I would never imply that.

...much... Razz

A very thick piece of straight wire (I use 6ga house wire) dropped down the spark plug hole can be used to estimate TDC if you don't want to buy or build a dead-stop. Hold one end of the wire while cranking the engine back and forth a little and you should be able to find the center of the cylinder dwell pretty easy.

Or burnouts, as I suggested earlier Very Happy

Twilightoptics · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject:

Don't crank, turn it over by hand. Half the time because of compression, the motor wont stop when you let off the key.

chevymad · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject:

RSFreak · Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:40 am Post subject:

The balancer on my '85 Z28 slipped off the hub. Sucked trying pull the hub off the crank snout. Stripped two gear pullers! Sad

blue89 · Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject:

I pull all of the spark plugs out, turn it over by hand, and then poke something in the #1 hole until the piston is at the top. Then you have to make sure it's at the right TDC. That will make sure nothing weird is going on with the balancer. Could be the balancer slipped or maybe the key sheared a little. Pretty easy to check. Might as well. I've played a lot with the V6's.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: