Cascade Crew

kutison · Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: Won't crank at all

Last 2 morning's the car would barely start, it would crank slow like the battery had a low charge. The car would start very slowly like it wanted to die and after about 20 seconds it would start.

This happened twice but I hoped it was just related to the cold weather.

Now I try to crank the car, And nothing happens, no cranking, no clicking from the solonoid just as if the battery is dead, problem is I have power.

Check the battery terminal connection, just changed the starter about 1 month ago. No security light.

So my best guesstimate is the ignition switch I know nothing about.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject:

You say you have power, what does that mean?

Do you have head lights, dash lights, radio, etc?

A battery can have enough power to operate those things, and not enough to turn the starter over. Make sure all connections are good.

If you're certain the battery is good:

See if you have 12v at the starter solenoid purple wire, key at start position.

kutison · Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject:

All of the accessories work, headlights also

to be sure it wasn't the battery, I tried to start it while being jumped, and the starter didn't even try to crank

kutison · Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject:

It's going to be a bit before I can test the voltage.

kutison · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject:

Well, I checked as much as I am able to without jacking the car up, since I don't even have that. I picked up ignition switch and the lowered the steering column, It's dark now so I am gonna install it tomorrow and pray it fixes the problem.

rjmcgee · The Hammer Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 2328

The purple wire to the starter can be found in the harness up by the engine. Just back track the harness up from the starter and look inside it.
I have a spot stripped back on both of my cars where I can hook a starter button up. I don't think the ignition switch is your problem.

alloy · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject:

An 89 car will have VATS. I see you said the security light is off, did you check the bulb to make sure it's good? Could be on with a burned out bulb.

If you get a new ignition switch you will need a VATS style switch, and then you need to get the proper resistance in the key chip to make it all work. You can and should measure your resistor value now before you lose your key, or like others the chip fell out of the key. You can go through a process to find the correct value without the key, but it's way easier to just measure the key and write the value down somewhere for future use just in case crap happens.

In the short time I've had our 89 with VATS I've read about broken wires from the ignition switch, bad contacts in the ignition switch (the switch contacts touch the resistor on both sides to complete the circuit). If this contact is bad, there will be nothing, no crank, no clicks..............you can have all the power in the world, but it won't do anything unless VATS is working.

Like hammer said, the inside wire on the solenoid can be jumped to see if you the car will crank, if it will then it's probably a VATS problem.

iansane · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject:

kutison · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject:

VATS was the fist thing I checked, because I replaced the ignition lock cylinder about 3 months ago. I had loose VATS wires in the past and ended up replacing my starter in a safeway parking lot before I realized 2 wires became disconnected Evil or Very Mad

I ordered and picked up an automatic, non-tilt ignition switch.

I am trying to remove the switch and I've been able to disconnect the wiring harnesses, but I am not able to get at the last screw to remove the switch. What do I have to do to completely remove the steering column so I can easily access the switch?

Ive removed the support under the column so I can get my hand between the top of the column and dash but i've gotten fed up.

alloy · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject:

Your right, I'm so used to everyone thinking the the lock cylinder is the switch, when it's just a lock cylinder and the switch is down on the column. I should have been more specific.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject:

kutison · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject:

ah man, figured you'd say that, now I gotta go get a 1/4th ratchet. I only have a 3/8ths with an adapter.

I got the 2 hex head screws out, with much trouble, but that took off a switch on the left side of the ignition switch, (not sure what it's for) It looks like the ignition switch is held on by a phillips head screw also. I'll have to go get some shorter screw drivers too...

aaron_sK · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject:

The second switch is the high/low headlight switch.

IIRC only the hex screws have to come out. I think the philips screws hold the bracket.

kutison · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject:

I'm missing something then, the 2 hex screws are off and the ignition switch is loose, but still attached. How is the rod that extends when I turn the lock cylinder attached to the switch? How is it disconnected?

chevymad · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject:

The actuator rod is underneath the switch. You need to pull the switch straight up away from the column to get off of it. May even need to hold the rod down. Should be able to feel part of it where it heads up the column towards the key.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject:

The switch is propped on a rod that comes from the key. Pull out away from the column. Only 2 screws hold it on. One is shared by the dimmer.

kutison · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:

I'm pretty sure that phillips screw has gotta come out, the switch rotates around it when I try to remove the switch, it would normally be covered by the dimmer switch. What position should the lock cylinder be in?

I'm having a friend bring me a shorter screw driver now. And when this is fixed Im investing in some real tools... and some rum... Down the hatch

kutison · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:25 pm Post subject:

I got that screw out and was able to get the switch free.

My last issue before I can start ihe reinstall is that there is some metal rod or tube that fits into a plastic piece that in turn connects to the left side of the ignition switch by 2 small phillips screws. this other end looks to run into the forewall (this is different the the actuator rod from the lock)

The replacement switch I got comes with the new housing so if I am to use this, I need to know how to remove the plastic piece from the metal connection. Or I can just screw this old piece into the new switch.

I hope this makes sense.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject:

It doesn't.

The dimmer switch on the left side has a rod that runs from the switch to the turn signal lever, and the rod on the right runs from the ignition switch to the lock cylinder.

There is a cable that runs to the column if it's an automatic car.

kutison · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the picture, it's the park lock cable.

The switch is installed and the problem persists.

only other clue i can think of is that the fan isn't comming on. I thought that it would be caused by a bad switch but that wasn't fixed either.

is there anywhere that the solonoid and fan interact other then the ignition switch, such as a shared fuse? Why wouldn't the fan come on? I do have a charged battery and keep in mind that the last few mornings it was starting hard which may or may not be related.