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DBL_TKE Member
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1505 Location: Aloha, OR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: Failed DEQ...again! |
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Alright I first tested my car as is with no tune up just to see what I was up against. I don't have any of the results with me but i was jsut about exactly twice the limit for HC on both the idle test and the 2500 RPM test, everythine else was fine. Now keep in mind that my car is a stock '85 LB9 with hollowed cat and garbage can-ized AIR equipment. I originally and obviously thought that I failed due to my car lacking a catalytic converter. So I got a universal cat and mounted...er...hick rigged that into place (I have 3" x 2 1/4" oval pipe) because I want to replace the hollowed cat after I pass. well I tested again and the results were almost exactly the same. Both times the engine was plenty warmed up and running at 220-240* with all accessories off. I do, however have a bit of a misfire. It also only happens when the engine is warmed up or in other words, in closed loop. I am going to replace my plug wires and see if that changes anything, I just cleaned and checked the cap and rotor but I guess I'll do that again just for good measure. Does anybody have any suggestions? I guess What I'm really trying to ask is "does anybody...'know a guy?'" ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) _________________ Richmond 3.73 posi| 36/24 sway bars | SLP LM2 | Koni's | Ground Control 800/200 | Y2K wheels | Dyno Don headers & Y-pipe | airfoil | BBK underdrive pulleys | Raised strut mounts | Extended ball joints | LCARB'S
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DBL_TKE Member
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1505 Location: Aloha, OR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well I tested again with new plug wires but that only lowered my HC on the 2500rpm down to 241 from 388. Idle stayed about the same at around 470. What else may be the culprit? I'm running out of time. _________________ Richmond 3.73 posi| 36/24 sway bars | SLP LM2 | Koni's | Ground Control 800/200 | Y2K wheels | Dyno Don headers & Y-pipe | airfoil | BBK underdrive pulleys | Raised strut mounts | Extended ball joints | LCARB'S
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Quasi-Traction "I have petals"
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Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 3873 Location: stumptown
1986 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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might try knocking back the timing a couple degrees retarded before you test.
Have you checked the ignition module? how about the plugs themselves?
have you checked anything on the fueling side? _________________
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DBL_TKE Member
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1505 Location: Aloha, OR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I remember I retarded the timing mechanically via the distributer but I may have gone too far resulting in a lean misfire. I'll check it tomorrow and set it at around 4* or so to be safe, and fill up on lower octane gas.
I replaced to plugs less than a years ago with Bosch platinum +4's. besides that I've only checked the cap and rotor and cleaned them while I was at it.
If you remember awhile back I was running on 6/7 cylinders because 1 or 2 of my injectors weren't firing. what would that do to those park plugs? _________________ Richmond 3.73 posi| 36/24 sway bars | SLP LM2 | Koni's | Ground Control 800/200 | Y2K wheels | Dyno Don headers & Y-pipe | airfoil | BBK underdrive pulleys | Raised strut mounts | Extended ball joints | LCARB'S
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Quasi-Traction "I have petals"
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Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 3873 Location: stumptown
1986 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:46 am Post subject: |
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the ECM could have told the other injectors to add fuel, which I suppose wouldn't hurt anything other than possibly the lifetime of the other injectors that were in good working order? That probably wasn't the case, however.
I'm not really much of an expert on the Batch fire (IE Tune Port) injection systems, so maybe someone with a little more expertice can chime in and offer suggestions.
You could always ask Tony if you could borrow his Cats? Might be enough to squeak you by the sniffer. _________________
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Sellmanb Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 727 Location: Tigard, OR
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Plat +4 plugs arent that great in these ignition systems. May want to run through with a set of regular 'ol AC Delco cheapies, they'll probably do yah better. Ask me how I know? lol |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Sellmanb wrote: | Plat +4 plugs arent that great in these ignition systems. May want to run through with a set of regular 'ol AC Delco cheapies, they'll probably do yah better. Ask me how I know? lol |
I'll second that one. I was using the normal Plats and had nothing but rough idle and hard starting problems with them. Swapping them didn't do squat for my HC though. |
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wanarunhard Member
Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 125 Location: ellensburg wa
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: hydrocarbons |
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i was a smog inspector in california for quite awhile, and every body forgets to change their oil right before the test see cause un burned hydro carbons go right down their and hide in the oil ive seen people just change the oil and pass |
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DBL_TKE Member
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1505 Location: Aloha, OR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, the day after I got those plugs is when I started hearing bad things about them. Go figure. I also checked my timing today and it was in fact about 10-12* advanced so I reset it to about 2*. Also one of the vacuum lines what collapsed so I pinched it back open for the time being, looks like I'll be getting another one to replace it. Another vacuum line was completely disconnected. Only problem is I don't know where it goes to. It's on the drivers side attached to a 3 way vacuum thing sort of in the shape of a "T" going along the sub frame rail in the direction of the charcoal canister. I already checked the charcoal canister and it doesn't seem to go to that as it comes up short anyway.
One last thing, how do I check if my EGR in functioning properly? _________________ Richmond 3.73 posi| 36/24 sway bars | SLP LM2 | Koni's | Ground Control 800/200 | Y2K wheels | Dyno Don headers & Y-pipe | airfoil | BBK underdrive pulleys | Raised strut mounts | Extended ball joints | LCARB'S
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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DBL_TKE wrote: | Yeah, the day after I got those plugs is when I started hearing bad things about them. Go figure. I also checked my timing today and it was in fact about 10-12* advanced so I reset it to about 2*. Also one of the vacuum lines what collapsed so I pinched it back open for the time being, looks like I'll be getting another one to replace it. Another vacuum line was completely disconnected. Only problem is I don't know where it goes to. It's on the drivers side attached to a 3 way vacuum thing sort of in the shape of a "T" going along the sub frame rail in the direction of the charcoal canister. I already checked the charcoal canister and it doesn't seem to go to that as it comes up short anyway.
One last thing, how do I check if my EGR in functioning properly? |
Might go to the hvac inside the car. Might go to egr. Might go to fuel pressure regulator (not sure what intake setup you've got on there). Might go to cruise line, etc.
EGR runs the NOx emission. |
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DBL_TKE Member
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1505 Location: Aloha, OR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Might go to the hvac inside the car. |
Well theres something wrong with the heater, fan system. it screeches really loud when I turn it on, no matter the setting. This perhaps?
I quickly checked today to make sure but I'll double check tomorrow.
Quote: | Might go to fuel pressure regulator (not sure what intake setup you've got on there). |
AFAIK I have the stock '85 TPI intake. (I am NOT positive on this as my engine has center bolt valve covers so it's a bit of a mystery as to what year my engine is.)
Quote: | Might go to cruise line, etc. |
well my cruise control either doesn't work or has been deleted.
Whatever it goes/went to should I just plug the end if I can't find the source. There was no vacuum when I felt it though. _________________ Richmond 3.73 posi| 36/24 sway bars | SLP LM2 | Koni's | Ground Control 800/200 | Y2K wheels | Dyno Don headers & Y-pipe | airfoil | BBK underdrive pulleys | Raised strut mounts | Extended ball joints | LCARB'S
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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The line going from the T next to the intake goes two places: One goes into a hardline which dissapears into a harness headed through the firewall, that's your HVAC. The other heads behind the wiper motor, and goes under the master cylinder and down to the cruise. It then T's off with one line to the cruise, and the other to the vacuum orb under the fender.
Or, as Tony says, "The Orb of Power".
When deleting the cruise, you still need the orb for your HVAC, so either cap one end of the T, or replace it with a straight connection. |
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DBL_TKE Member
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1505 Location: Aloha, OR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Well thanks for all the help guys. I finally managed to pass today. After about 6 attempts, now several of the workers there know me by name.
Turn out when I adjusted the timing before I went to DEQ I accidentally advance it rather than retarded it. I was at 10-12* advanced. Needless to say I fixed that yesterday. I barely passed as I have an "exhaust leak" that I was plenty aware of but it probably cut down on some of the emissions going to the tail pipe. this time my HC was at 200 even and my CO2 dilution wasright on the limit of 6%. now I can relax for 2 more years. _________________ Richmond 3.73 posi| 36/24 sway bars | SLP LM2 | Koni's | Ground Control 800/200 | Y2K wheels | Dyno Don headers & Y-pipe | airfoil | BBK underdrive pulleys | Raised strut mounts | Extended ball joints | LCARB'S
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Dewey316 The Lama
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 7295 Location: Bringing the tech
1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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DBL_TKE wrote: | Well thanks for all the help guys. I finally managed to pass today. After about 6 attempts, now several of the workers there know me by name. |
That is nothing, Paul and I went 34 times in my car.
"we are trying to get cars like yours off the road...." --"butch" DEQ Employee. |
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blue89 Member
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Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 3482 Location: Bellingham/Eugene
1986 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Down here they don't look under the hood as long as your cigarette lighter works, so they'll never know what you're missing. ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) |
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DBL_TKE Member
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1505 Location: Aloha, OR
1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Well at the DEQ I went to it was sort of a hit and miss type deal with who you got inspecting your car. There's one guy there who thoroughly inspects your car and he was the only one who asked me to pop my hood. he never got the chance to look under there though as my car wasn't putting out a high enough CO2 dilution number.
Hydrocarbon standard: 220 PPM
CO standard: 1
dilution: 6
Those are the actual emission's standards and you need to pass a:
-smoke test
-noise test
-need a fuel cap
-need a catalytic converter (they'll check for it with a mirror)
they will also check for your AIR pump as well I believe. I'm not sure but they are supposed to do under hood inspections.
they had me do a idle test and a test at 2500 RPM's.
I also found that if you can manage to get your CO down to 0 you don't have to do the 2500 RPM test. Either that or the guy felt sorry for me and just let me pass.
This is all in Oregon though. I do know that if you have a car older than 1974 than you don't need to DEQ it. awhile ago it used to be 20 years or older but now they have a set year. I don't know about WA though. _________________ Richmond 3.73 posi| 36/24 sway bars | SLP LM2 | Koni's | Ground Control 800/200 | Y2K wheels | Dyno Don headers & Y-pipe | airfoil | BBK underdrive pulleys | Raised strut mounts | Extended ball joints | LCARB'S
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Didn't pop my hood, and my car was smoking! |
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Quasi-Traction "I have petals"
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Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 3873 Location: stumptown
1986 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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washington has a rolling 25 year exemption. _________________
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83Z28BlackBetty Bam-Ba-Lam
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 2083 Location: Aloha
1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Quasi-Traction wrote: | washington has a rolling 25 year exemption. |
28 years. I'm 25 grrrr... _________________ 1983 Z-28 5.7 LT1, T56, Headman headers, BW 9 Bolt Posi Disc, WS6 suspension
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