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You know, I never started a project thread
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't use my AC request idea either because it will short circuit the driver in the Holley ECM.

Back to square one again.... Rolling Eyes
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is probably why one fan is ecm controlled while the other had its own temp switch and relay. Also why on the lg4 single fan system there is no ecm fan control.
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chevymad wrote:
This is probably why one fan is ecm controlled while the other had its own temp switch and relay. Also why on the lg4 single fan system there is no ecm fan control.


So, GM's A/C wiring on carb cars...

http://92b4crs.tripod.com/86wiring/dia-pics/63-8.jpg

Laughing

Personally I would wire it up exactly like that and then jump the secondary fan relay to give the condenser a fighting chance. But that's just me.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you show that picture? The link doesn't work for me.
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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh god, so someone on TGO is still using Tripod in 2014. Laughing

I rehosted it on Imgur, so get it while it's hot:

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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, I started with a diagram like that as the bare bones basic option. It's always a fall back position I suppose.

Apparently they thought if somebody put power steering at full lock and had AC on at the same time that the engine would die. Laughing
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm kind of tired of this subject already. Laughing Here are all the ideas I could come up with. The missing options are ones that had problems and I'm not sharing. I need to sort out a few other things I want to control and see if I have the I/O left to do it.

Dual fan control, with and without AC. No AC relay needed. Downside is it has no AC shutoff at WOT.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the bells and whistles. Downside is it uses up 3 of 4 custom Outputs available on the Holley HP system, and I would have to hack into my fuse panel to rewire the Fan 2 relay so it operates on 12V switching.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same function as Option 4 but I don't have to hack my fuse panel and wiring is a bit more simplified. Still uses up 3 of 4 outputs from Holley HP system.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same basic function as Option 4 and 5 while using one less Input driver, but loses the ability to turn off Fan 2 at will. Options 4 and 5 could shut off fans for any reason I want.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Full featured but with safety improvement. AC request is visible to Holley ECM even if system goes over pressure and the high pressure switch opens. Fans will continue to run.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a neat discovery today Smile There are two wires that come through C100 that didn't go anywhere in the engine bay. These were just loose leads in the original harness and not documented in the C100 diagram. I looked at a different year C100 diagram and found those wires were for the speed sensor with VIN code E. I traced out the wires inside the car and sure enough, those wires went to an unused connector near my original speed buffer box. I was able to run my T56 speed signal through C100 and it was all pre-wired to the right location. Thumbs up So I redid my connector to an 8 pin Metripack and every wire that I need to pass through to the interior is going through C100. I have no wires running through the passenger side fender.

Loose wires in the engine bay (yellow and purple).


Traced to this connector on passenger side.


Updated C100 connections diagram.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The total mess of wiring in engine bay is just a partial mess now. I have finally gotten to the point where I could mount my electrical center for the engine harness. All the stock relays are gone that were on the driver side firewall. The new electrical center has fuses and relays for everything in the engine bay.

I used the original upper-left weld nut as one mounting point and drilled a hole and self-tapped the original screw for the lower mount point. If the lower screw strips out then I'll just drill the hole out slightly larger and use a bolt. Lots more wiring still ahead.


Easy access to the fuses.
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Twilightoptics
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice. Me likey.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMR K-member update:

Great news! My K-member did not fit the jig well and BMR is replacing it, even knowing I bought it new second-hand a couple years ago. The new one will arrive before the weekend and the old one is scrap metal. Thumbs up

I'll tell you what, I am really pleased and impressed with BMR's decision about this. You just can't ask for anything better! That's a real serious commitment to brand quality, and just plain ol' goodness of heart too.

Guess I'll be swapping cross-member again this weekend. I should be pretty good at it considering it must be the 10th time or so.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New BMR k-member installed without a hitch. Every bolt lined up and the wheels were centered. Looks like I can bolt the AC compressor back on the engine. Smile
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Twilightoptics
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't believe they took care of you like that. That's seriously awesome and everyone should be a supporter.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm impressed too. It didn't just happen on its own though. I've been working on them for a year and 95% of the time they didn't follow through on anything they said. I had to be really patient and nice and use skills I have learned managing parts suppliers on the job. Believe me, very few people could get that result.

And yes, I will be buying torque arm from them. They've earned my loyalty.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonight I took on the task of mounting ECM under the dash. I came up with a really clean install for the Holley HP ECM and the Dakota Digital speedometer signal conditioning box.

Original stock ECM mounting bracket. This is the side the ECM is attached. The stock speedometer buffer box is clipped to the back side.


Need to remove the rails on each side of the bracket in order to make a flat spot for the Holley ECM to sit.


Holes drilled and Holley HP ECM attached. Right now I'm using two zip ties at each mounting point. Not sure if I'll used bolts or not. The zip ties seem awfully sturdy and has low clearance to make the next step possible.


Turns out the spacing of the Dakota Digital mounting tabs was close enough to snap it onto the original clips that held the speedometer buffer box. Smile


Finished product. All the connectors facing toward the fender wall. Way nicer than just tossing the ECM on top of the bottom panel like most people do!
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So.... what is that filler stuff in the passenger side electrical pass-thru? I wondered too so I went on a search today.

You can try to call manufacturers of potting materials but you won't get far on your own because they don't do small batch private sales. Fortunately, the caller ID from my desk phone gets me past the gatekeeper. Wink Here are some options I got from a technical advisor. I also have data sheets that aren't on the websites. If you want copies then send me a PM with your e-mail. The criteria I gave them was,

  • water splash protection
  • compatible with SXL automotive wire
  • able to be removed without too much difficulty
  • able to be applied in a home garage environment

You shouldn't need more than 65 mL to get the job done, probably much less depending on how many wires you have.

http://www.ellsworth.com/dow-corning-sylgard-160-silicone-encapsulant-210ml-kit/
Silicone elastomer. Pours like Karo syrup and sets with a hardness like a radiator hose. 20 minute work time. Color is dark grey to black.

http://www.ellsworth.com/resinlab-ur-3010-clear-urethane-encapsulant-50-ml-cartridge/
Polyurethane. Pours like 30W oil and sets even softer with a hardness like a red rubber pencil eraser. 30 minute work time. Color is clear. I like this one. It's cheap and comes in the perfect size of 50 mL.

http://www.ellsworth.com/resinlab-ep1200-epoxy-encapsulant-black-50-ml-cartridge/
Epoxy. Pours like ketchup and sets hard like ABS plastic. Personally, I wouldn't choose this one if you ever want to dig out your wires. 2 hour work time. Color is black.
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QwkTrip
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scratch all the progress I made on wiring with the Holley harness. I tried my best to fix the harness layout but it just looks like ****. They have retards making harnesses at Holley. I stripped down the whole harness and I'm laying it out circuit by circuit like I did with the LS1 harness. At least I'll be happy with it when it goes back together.

I also moved the HVAC wiring so it goes under the AC box rather than over the top. There was just too many wire bundles trying to share the same space around the heater core inlets/outlets and I needed to do something open up space. Dropping the HVAC wires low helped a lot. I put velcro heat shield over the harness since it will be fairly close to header tube.



The other thing that has happened is that with the new BMR K-member the engine seems to sit a little higher than it did before. The coil is really close to AC case on firewall. I ground down a bolt head on the coil quite a bit trying to get more clearance. Don't know what else to do other than move the coil but I'm not interested to do that right now.



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aaron_sK
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton

1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fiberglass may self clearance.

Or it may just crack. Laughing

I would buzz that corner of the glass off with your Dremel.
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chevymad
Master B


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5472


1987 Pontiac Formula

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That'll make it fun to replace that coil.
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QwkTrip
11sec Club


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 3942
Location: Peoria, IL

1989 Pontiac Firebird

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the coils sit on a bracket that is easy to remove. No problem there. Although last time I took the bolt out it fell in the crotch between all 4 header tubes. Why? Because I'm always unlucky like that. It was like playing a pinball machine trying to knock the bolt out onto the floor.

I'm going to look into a flat head bolt. Never seen one before but it appears pretty darn slim in pictures. I've even thought about a zip tie. I'm also going to loosen all the bolts that hold the case to the firewall and see if I can shift it to the left any little bit possible.
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