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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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 Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Because some people understand screw drivers and others computers.
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A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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fiveoformula
Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: OR
1988 Pontiac Formula
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:12 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a ton of experiance with carbs. All the ones I have owned never had a choke at all but pretty much ran fine after a minute of "playing with it". lol
Ive gotten my TBI to just about run just as smooth cold as it does warm though. I usually warm it up for a few minutes anyway, but I can take off right away if I need, And the cam isnt huge, but its a monster compared to a stock TBI cam.
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'88 FORMULA |
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | | Because some people understand screw drivers and others computers. |
That's just about the only really good reason I can see for using a carb on an LS. If you gotta hotrod, you gotta hotrod. A lack of desire or capacity to learn about EFI is a solid excuse to hotrod with a carb.
From an objective point of view EFI beats a carb in just about every way.
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84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow |
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aaron_sK
Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | | Because some people understand screw drivers and others computers. |
I see people say stuff like that all the time from both sides of the fence: old guys who claim to not "understand" EFI, and young guys who don't get carbs, but it just seems stupid to me.
You and I are both people who can tune EFI or a carb with ease, and we both know that the same fundamental tuning is done on both. AE and pumpshot are the same thing. Your spark table is the same as setting the weights and vacuum can on a dist. The engine doesn't know whats on top of it, all it sees is fuel and spark.
So all the kids going around saying they "Can't tune a carb 'cause they don't understand it" are just being willfully ignorant. I get it if you prefer one over the other (I know you and I both prefer EFI hands down) but no one should be running around all Kermit Arms saying "I can't tune this crazy thing!" that's just silly.
I think among a certain subset of people there is a bias towards carburetors simply because they run better with a poor tune than an EFI. We can call this the "Edelbrock principal" and you can ask John Stahlman for more about that.  |
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fiveoformula
Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: OR
1988 Pontiac Formula
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| aaron_sK wrote: | | the same fundamental tuning is done on both. AE and pumpshot are the same thing. Your spark table is the same as setting the weights and vacuum can on a dist. The engine doesn't know whats on top of it, all it sees is fuel and spark. |
Mountain man speaks the truth, every engine needs what it needs, doesnt really matter how it gets there. |
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turbo_jimi
Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 1206
Location: Tacoma
1985 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I like carbs. 
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1985 Z28 Crate 350, Hurst T-5, 3.23s, Flowmaster Under previous set-up: 143.82 rwhp 216.98 lbs. torque @4390 rpms 3/12/11 |
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| turbo_jimi wrote: | | I like carbs. |
I like carbs too, like bread and beer. I hate carbs for non organic devices. Though, I am a glutton for punishment.
This is my play today.
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aaron_sK
Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'll just leave this link here...
I suggest buying two. It's almost lawnmowing season.  |
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Quasi-Traction
"I have petals"
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 3873
Location: stumptown
1986 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| aaron_sK wrote: | | Twilightoptics wrote: | | Because some people understand screw drivers and others computers. |
I see people say stuff like that all the time from both sides of the fence: old guys who claim to not "understand" EFI, and young guys who don't get carbs, but it just seems stupid to me.
You and I are both people who can tune EFI or a carb with ease, and we both know that the same fundamental tuning is done on both. AE and pumpshot are the same thing. Your spark table is the same as setting the weights and vacuum can on a dist. The engine doesn't know whats on top of it, all it sees is fuel and spark.
I think among a certain subset of people there is a bias towards carburetors simply because they run better with a poor tune than an EFI. We can call this the "Edelbrock principal" and you can ask John Stahlman for more about that. |
^ this..A carb is a rough fuel/air mixer. EFI has changed so much since the advent of OBDII. I can say this about myself. I've never done any EFI adjustments to any vehicle, in fact, the most modern car I've owned is now 13 years old. For me its a familiarity thing with a carburetor, and something simple that can be physically adjusted, although the principals are similar. Computers can be a learning curve, especially for a lot of older guys just don't want to take the time, much less learn how to tune their hot rod. Its really a question of comfort.
Anyone can learn anything, its just a matter of willingness, patience, and time. A lot of "car dudes" just see read stuff in magazines, or see stuff posted online, and don't understand the work, expense and time that goes in to it, they just want to "go fast", and the cheaper it can be done, is always welcome.
To answer aaron's original theoretical question; A good tune on EFI will out power a good tune on a carbureted motor, every time.
Just my humble $.02. I still have my carbureted SBC, and it will more than likely go into an older chassis. 49-52 Chevy coupe's have really caught my affinity, lately, but I still like the 67-72 chev/GMC trucks. The latter is a more realistic and more in what I can afford. |
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aaron_sK
Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Everybody and their Uncle has a second-gen C-series. I'd do the early Chev.
Not a coupe but the price isn't bad considering...
http://portland.craigslist.org/yam/cto/4390794481.html
I nearly bought one of those about five years ago. Bought bondo bucket instead. In hindsight that was probably a poor choice. |
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Did I mention I hate carbs? What a waste of a day. New carb holders and now a vacuum leak on a different cylinder.
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A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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iansane
Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 5740
Location: Bothell
1991 Pontiac Trans Am
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | | Did I mention I hate carbs? What a waste of a day. New carb holders and now a vacuum leak on a different cylinder. |
Did the Pabst mess with your head?
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| Quote: | | Sometimes I actually think I'm slightly retarded in the mouth. |
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fiveoformula
Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: OR
1988 Pontiac Formula
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| HAHA what he said |
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turbo_jimi
Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 1206
Location: Tacoma
1985 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | | turbo_jimi wrote: | | I like carbs. |
I like carbs too, like bread and beer. I hate carbs for non organic devices. Though, I am a glutton for punishment.
This is my play today. |
Funny, I was thinking "well, I like food carbs, too" after I posted this...
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1985 Z28 Crate 350, Hurst T-5, 3.23s, Flowmaster Under previous set-up: 143.82 rwhp 216.98 lbs. torque @4390 rpms 3/12/11 |
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Did I mention I hate carbs? What a waste of a day. New carb holders and now a vacuum leak on a different cylinder.
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A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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Quasi-Traction
"I have petals"
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 3873
Location: stumptown
1986 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | | Did I mention I hate carbs? What a waste of a day. New carb holders and now a vacuum leak on a different cylinder. |
Remember Paul, multiple carburetors are like a woman with fake B--bs. Asthetically pleasing, but ultimately dissapointing.
Last edited by Quasi-Traction on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RSFreak
The other "John"
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2946
Location: Renton
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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That is Grant's car BTW. 
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'86 Trans Am - 5.0L TPI - LT1 cam - 700R4 - WS6
'85 Camaro Berlinetta - IROC clone
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