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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: Logic |
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The goo in this bottle came from the same country as the goo in this clutch, so this should all work out great!
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fiveoformula Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 1799 Location: OR
1988 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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You lost me already.... lol _________________
'88 FORMULA |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Wtf mate? _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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iansane Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 5740 Location: Bothell
1991 Pontiac Trans Am
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Fan clutches are viscous? Cool, never thought to wonder what was inside of them. Are you trying to "adjust" your clutch tension or just repair instead of replace it?
Or am I out in left field and that's not a fan clutch? _________________
Quote: | Sometimes I actually think I'm slightly retarded in the mouth. |
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fiveoformula Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 1799 Location: OR
1988 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a FURD repair to me... |
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Alphius Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 2429 Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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fiveoformula wrote: | Sounds like a FURD repair to me... |
Bottle has Japanese on it so I'm not convinced. _________________ 84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Haha... I figured this would throw you guys for a loop, so here's the lowdown:
I have always had only a very rudimentary understand of how a clutch fan works. I knew it was a viscous fluid coupling because I had seen them leak, and I knew it had some sort of vane adjustment or something (because of the bi-metal strip on the front) but I didn't think to much beyond that.
The Toyota had been running warm in traffic on only the very hottest days. Never at speed and never during my morning commute or on cold days. Logically the fan clutch was the first suspect, and it did seem very loose so $10 off craigslist problems solved, right?
Well no, the "new" clutch worked okay for a bit, but started doing the same thing, so I started reading.
Apparently this is a common problem with Toyota mechanical fans. The interweb consensus is that Toyota used a thin fluid on most vehicles and habitually underfilled the clutches from the factory.
After more research I found that most of these clutches don't use a petroleum-based product, but a non-Newtonian silicone fluid that gets stiffer as more force is applied. The bi-metal strip controls a sliding door that allows more or less fluid into the clutch from the reservoir. The fluid does break down over time, and 'Yota's underfilling makes that even worse. You can buy fluid direct from the Toyota dealer for about fifteen bucks per 16mL bottle (the clutch takes 35-40mL!), but that seemed like a real dumb idea so I pressed on and discovered that the same fluid is used in RC car differentials.
I had the spare clutch that came off the truck, so I figured I had nothing to loose (except time, money and valuable garage time that should be spent on the Camaro) so I was off to the hobby shop in Lakewood for a $10 50mL bottle of goo (the stuff is actually imported from Japan).
Toyota actually used the standard viscosity index for this silly-cone goo, and I found a '3K' stamped on the casting of mine, and a '5K' stamped on the craigslist unit. 3K, 6K and 10K are the common higher viscosities, but you can mix and match to make what you want. The stuff goes up into the 500K range if you want it really thick. The goo I bought was 10K because they didn't have any 6K on the shelf.
I split the clutch casing and left it face-down in a drain pan in the sun while I drove to the hobby shop in Lakewood. People say it takes forever to drain but they're idiots or they're doing it cold because I got it dry in about an hour on a 90* day. I filled it up to the highest point and reinstalled it, but after the truck warmed up it was worse then ever. I pulled it back off and split it open again and found the guts nearly dry. The stuff doesn't flow for s*** and I had left a huge air bubble inside the clutch. After a second topoff it went much better.
I have to say so far I am very impressed, and it has possibly worked too well. I drove all day yesterday with the aircon on high and it barely touched the halfway mark on the gauge. I was stuck in heavy traffic today and it was rock steady at about 2/5 of the gauge.
The true test will be the next economy run. If it kills my milage I will drop it back down to 6K fluid.
So there you go. If you're too cheap to do the smart thing and buy an electric fan you can just cheat and tune your clutch fan for cheap! |
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Alphius Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 2429 Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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TLDR;
Buy a junkyard Taurus electric fan and be done with it. The lesson here kids is that if you start taking things apart and thinking about them too much you will go insane like Aaron and spend way too much time and money on dumb projects.
_________________ 84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
85 Silverado - Low and Slow |
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iansane Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 5740 Location: Bothell
1991 Pontiac Trans Am
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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This is awesome. Born a tinkerer. Good job dude. _________________
Quote: | Sometimes I actually think I'm slightly retarded in the mouth. |
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RSFreak The other "John"
Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 2946 Location: Renton
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Alphius wrote: | TLDR;
Buy a junkyard Taurus electric fan and be done with it. The lesson here kids is that if you start taking things apart and thinking about them too much you will go insane like Aaron and spend way too much time and money on dumb projects.
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I was gonna say why are you messing with old school tech instead of going electric, but Gabe said it better. _________________ '86 Trans Am - 5.0L TPI - LT1 cam - 700R4 - WS6
'85 Camaro Berlinetta - IROC clone
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Hahaha! I actually did all of this while a perfectly good Taurus fan was sitting on the floor next to my bench.
You guys know I'm the biggest proponent of electric fans, but I have $20 into this whole thing, and an electric fan at Pick-N-Pull is up to $40 now. Plus then I would have had to build mounts, buy a temp sender ($15) and build a wiring harness. Not worth it on an old work truck.
Plus I learned something I didn't know! |
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RSFreak The other "John"
Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 2946 Location: Renton
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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aaron_sK wrote: |
Plus I learned something I didn't know! |
Learning stuff is over rated. |
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rjmcgee The Hammer
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 2320
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: |
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logic would dictate losing that bad ass 80's technology and install the electric fan. increased miliage would pay back the install.
I'm going to do electric fans on both my diesels, the IDI first to free up precious horsepower! Even a 5hp increase is like 20% on that turd |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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rjmcgee wrote: | logic would dictate losing that bad ass 80's technology and install the electric fan. increased miliage would pay back the install. |
Logic yes, but reality no!!!
313 miles on this tank. 29.6mpg. That's the second best tank I've ever run through this truck.
I wasn't milking it either. Raced a guy yesterday and drove in my typical style.
I'm pretty pleased. I'll wait until the weather cools off to see if it takes forever to heat up or something. |
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IROCDave Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Posts: 957 Location: Snohomish WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Would be interesting to see the fuel economy delta of the Taurus electric fan verse old school clutch fan....
Not sure if GM still does this with the HD trucks, but my 03 HD with a Duramax has a clutch fan. It is really loud, only time I can tell it comes on is when towing over steep grades with AC on. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Pretty much any truck runs a clutch fan. More durable and reliable than an electric fan, and it only has one failure point.
I too would be interested in seeing an electric vs. clutch delta on HP and economy losses. The problem is that the electric fan is reliant on the electrical system being well designed, whereas the clutch fan is fairly static.
A properly installed electric fan will drag less on an engine than something hacked together with crimp-ons and speaker wire.
And now a fun side note for you all: The new 6.7 'Stroke trucks run an ECM-controlled fan clutch.
It fails a lot.
Big surprise.
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chevymad Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 5473
1987 Pontiac Formula
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Trucks got rid of the clutch fan a few years ago.
Several have had ecm controlled e-fans.. and some have even had hydraulically operated fans running off the ps pump. |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Ecm controlled air actuated fan ftw. _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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aaron_sK wrote: | I too would be interested in seeing an electric vs. clutch delta on HP and economy losses. |
I have an old issue of a magazine that did that. Swapped fans on the same truck and the clutch fan won the mileage contest. I think it was either Diesel Power magazine or Peterson's 4-Wheel and Off-Road.
I'd dig it out but I have hundreds of magazines in crates and I'm not going to find it any time soon. Speaking of which, what do people do with old car magazines? The hoarder in me won't let me throw them away, even though I should. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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If it was a diesel truck they did it on then any economy results are skewed due to the diesel's efficiency with a load.
I'm more interested in the fact that you still get freakin' magazines! What is this, 1997? You're gonna read some Hot Rod and then check your pager? |
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