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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure you can buy anything except straight for LS engine. That's why I'm happy the MSD boots are designed to be bent and take a set wherever you put them. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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I got my new Hawks 2" headers and exhaust system (Stainless Works). First impression is that it looks ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC! I knew the headers would be very nice, but the exhaust system blew me away. This is the kind of stuff you see from custom rod shops, and don't expect from off-the-shelf mail order. I am very happy, assuming it all fits in the car!
Very cold weather moved in today so now the garage is too cold to have fun. I tracked some snow inside the garage and it hasn't melted at all. |
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IROCDave Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Posts: 957 Location: Snohomish WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a NG furnace in garage, cut in a closeable vent in the main supply duct. Trust me, it works great. I didnt realize my home had this untill a couple weeks ago. My old labrador has benifitted greatly ever since I opened up the diffuser.
Keep the pics flowing. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Not all is quite as wonderful as it seems. There is a huge misalignment of header and Y-pipe. Maybe it will work out when I see where the pipes need to go in the car. The driver side pipe is a slip fit near the Y so it can be wriggled into different positions.
I took the engine off the stand and fit up the stock T56 flywheel housing. It fits with very small amount of clearance. The Quick Time flywheel housing would need significant trimming to fit, as you can see by the placement of the plate.
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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I gave my fuel tank wire harness away with the fuel tank thinking I would just buy a new Weatherpack connector for the rear firewall. LOL! That's not been an easy task finding that little sucker. Been regretting doing that but I finally found the correct keyway at Mouser and Ballenger Motorsports. So that is sorted out.
But what I've really been spending some time on is looking into options for underhood electrical center. I don't like the cheapo fuse blocks that most people make with parts from Autozone. And 4th gen electrical centers cost a fortune and most are corroded and looking nasty. What I've found is Cooper Bussmann and Delphi.
Cooper Bussmann make a blank box that you can order with different options of buss bars, uses Metri-pack 280 connectors, and is sealed with a nice lid. Just load it with your wires, fuses, and relays.
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann/transportation/products/power_distribution/power_distribution_modules/series_15300_rtmr.html
It also looks like Delphi sells OE style modular electrical centers. I'm really interested in this option (page 311). http://delphi.com/pdf/contact/brochures/DCS_GlobalCatalog.pdf
I need to sketch out how I want the circuits set up and then choose my electrical center. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by QwkTrip on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:14 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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I took a stab at the fuel system wiring. I have a 4th gen fuel tank with Racetronix Hot Wire kit so that has to be built in. I'm not educated on how to draw schematics properly so I just do what works for my mind.
The Racetronix relay is all the way back by the tank and I don't need/want the stock 3rd gen relay any longer. It's no loss because those 3rd gen fuel pump relays are total pile of junk and the connectors short out. I'm still going to use the original wire bundle that routes to the back of the car. The original power to 3rd gen fuel pump is now signal to Racetronix fuel pump relay. The original fuel gage sender wire is still needed, but the last wire in the bundle will become the ground for fuel gage sender, since the 4th gen tank is plastic and I need to add a fuel sender ground.
The Racetronix harness has redundant heavy ground wires that is added to increase fuel pump performance. I'll make this my primary ground to body. Also, when the Racetronix harness is used with 4th gen car the relay coil ground is sent back to body harness, but I'm all out of wires in my 3rd gen harness so I'm dead ending that wire at the connector and relying on the body ground.
By the way, if you need to replace the Weather-Pack connector at the back of the car the Delphi part number is 12020829. And yes, it was a pain in the rear to find that.
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Last edited by QwkTrip on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:05 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Dewey316 The Lama
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 7295 Location: Bringing the tech
1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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I assume somewhere you have 12v going to the relay? Grounding the trigger side of a relay with no 12v, that has a redundant ground on the other side of the relay won't do much. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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R9 terminal in the engine PCM is fuel pump control and is 12V supply.
The factory LS1 fuel pump relay ground is at the rear of cylinder head. It seems that location is used as common ground for PCM driven devices. The Racetronix relay is all the way back by the tank. It's important to run the relay field ground back to the common PCM ground plane on cylinder head so that there are no ground loops and other PCM drivers don't actuate unexpectedly.
The redundant ground is part of the Racetronix harness and uses a pretty large gage wire. I opted for the extra heavy battery cable ground too. Maybe it's a good idea to divorce the fuel pump ground in the back of the car from the relay field ground. |
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Dewey316 The Lama
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 7295 Location: Bringing the tech
1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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The PCM supplies 12v? Normally the PCM grounds the circuit and 12v is supplied from the fuse box. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate you asking questions. It is the best way to help me make sure I did this right.
The PCM has both high side drivers (supply voltage) and low side drivers (sink to ground). Chevy chose to use a high side driver for LS1 fuel pump relay. You can see fuel pump wiring diagram on page 22 of the 2000 Camaro wiring schematic. Notice terminal A8 of Fuel Pump Relay traces back to the PCM terminal 9 (that's Red 9, or R9) on page 23.
http://cascadecrew.org/LSx%20Info/2000%20Camaro%20system%20wiring%20diagrams.pdf
Normally the high current side of relay (power contacts) does go back to a fuse block, but in this case Racetronix made an add-on kit and provided an in-line fuse and cable that goes straight to alternator or battery. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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I guess the other thing I'll point out is that the LS1 does not have a low oil pressure shut-off for fuel pump like the 3rd gen does, so if the oil pressure drops like a rock I'll have to shut down the engine myself. You can adapt the 3rd gen oil pressure gauge to the engine and wire up the low oil pressure switch if you want. But I don't want. I'd rather maintain control of the car and choose to shut down vs. just driving along and losing power suddenly. If oil pressure is lost I think there will be a check engine light on the dash (although I'm not entirely sure about that). |
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iansane Member
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 5740 Location: Bothell
1991 Pontiac Trans Am
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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QwkTrip wrote: | I guess the other thing I'll point out is that the LS1 does not have a low oil pressure shut-off for fuel pump like the 3rd gen does, so if the oil pressure drops like a rock I'll have to shut down the engine myself. You can adapt the 3rd gen oil pressure gauge to the engine and wire up the low oil pressure switch if you want. But I don't want. I'd rather maintain control of the car and choose to shut down vs. just driving along and losing power suddenly. If oil pressure is lost I think there will be a check engine light on the dash (although I'm not entirely sure about that). |
Thirdgens don't have low oil pressure shutoffs. _________________
Quote: | Sometimes I actually think I'm slightly retarded in the mouth. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think mine does. That's how the fuel pump is primed. Or am I mixing up functions of the oil pressure switch? My old Chilton's manual has incomplete schematics so it's hard to know. |
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iansane Member
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 5740 Location: Bothell
1991 Pontiac Trans Am
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Nah, the oil pressure switch setup is designed so that when the car sees enough oil pressure it will bypass the fuel pump relay. So in cases where the fuel pump relay has gone bad, the car can still be run. It doesn't, however, cut power when there is not enough oil pressure. It's just a fail safe so that you always have power to the fuel pump.
When I first bought my car I did not know this and whenever the car was cold I had crazy long crank times (like 10-20 seconds). As soon as I finally looked into it, I was just cranking the motor until I built up oil pressure and bypassing the failed relay. Replaced the relay and insta-start. ![Very Happy](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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The factory oil pressure switch triggers the fuel pump in case of relay failure. It does not turn the fuel pump off in case of engine failure.
An oil pressure kill is not a bad idea on an ECM car and is damn near required on a carb car with an electric pump. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks! That makes me feel better I'm not giving up functionality.
What did you do for the oil pressure sender? I'm seeing different stories on whether or not the LS1 oil pressure sender gives good readings on stock 3rd gen gauge. And was there a year when the gauge technology changed so that it does integrate better with LS1 PCM? I'm getting the idea Firebird had updated gauges before Camaro, but I'm not sure what it entails. |
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83Z28BlackBetty Bam-Ba-Lam
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 2083 Location: Aloha
1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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fuse box food for though, instead of having switched power power up the hot side of each relay, consider having a "main relay" that will power up the fuse block. So instead, ignition power switches the main relay, which in turn switches on all the the other relays and powers the rest of fuses. So anything else under the hood that needs 12v that is not relay powered can get power from the main relay instead of ignition power. just be sure to keep an extra relay in case it burns out. lol
Does this make sense? its how i wired up my under hood wiring harness and it takes a huge load off the standard ignition power. _________________ 1983 Z-28 5.7 LT1, T56, Headman headers, BW 9 Bolt Posi Disc, WS6 suspension
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Ya, that's the way I started looking at it because it would be easier, but then I realized the relay is between battery and fuse, so the fuse doesn't protect against relay failure. And these micro relay coils only pull about 0.1 Amp each so the switched load is extremely low. |
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